3 way vs. 4 way systems

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

This is a pure sq standpoint. I already have a sub running on 2k watts. Which do you think is better to run? I have no problem classing my doors if need be.

Is it better to run a sub crossed over at 50 hertz, a set of midrange woofers crossed from 50 to 500 hertz, a set of midrange speakers crossed over from 500 hertz to 5k watts, and a set of tweeters crossed over at 5k watts or:

My sub crossed over at 60 or 70 hertz, a set of midrange woofers crossed at 70 to 5k and a set of tweeters crossed at 5k?

Regardless, my system will be using an active crossover. What do you think? I'm not going cheap here since in my opinion is the front stage is the most important.

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[dragnix 5,000+ posts]

put your money and effort into install and you should be fine with just a 3way setup. It also depends on the equipment you use. If you use a midrange that can extend up higher then there is no need to bandpass them within a narrow bandwidth. And on the flip side, if you use a dedicated midbass then you can't just allow them to extend up to tweeter territory.

Nah mean?

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I know what you mean. Like i said I'm not going cheap here. I want to w able to hit 50-10k with authority. Not Peter out as the speaker is reaching it's peak. So you think a high quality mid range woofer will be able to hit from 50-5k with authority?

 

[dragnix 5,000+ posts]

it should, and that's what you should invest your money in. I think for a successful SQ system you need to focus on the tweets and the midrange more than anything. However, instead of making the midrange extend all the way to 5k, you can get a really good tweeter that can go down to 4k or maybe even 3k.

Some tweeters, of course, are capable of going even lower. Would you need them to? Hell if i know, but it wouldn't hurt

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

Or would it be better for the midrange woofer to hit from 50 to 1k and have the tweets crossed over at that point?

 

[dragnix 5,000+ posts]

more importantly, you need a good processor that has steep slopes on the xover (18db/oct and up) to allow the mids and subs to blend better.

 

[i2ain2thunder 10+ year member]

This is going to be 100% opinionated man. You need to find out what sounds best for you, personally I like a good 2 way system the most.

 

[dragnix 5,000+ posts]

This is going to be 100% opinionated man. You need to find out what sounds best for you, personally I like a good 2 way system the most.

2way front, 3way overall. Just wanted to be technical and clarify things //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

more importantly, you need a good processor that has steep slopes on the xover (18db/oct and up) to allow the mids and subs to blend better.

Oh I'll def invest at least 200 on a good processor. Okay so I'm crossing the mid range woofers and tweets at 3k watts and getting some beefy tweets. What's a good processor you would recommend?

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

This is going to be 100% opinionated man. You need to find out what sounds best for you, personally I like a good 2 way system the most.

Everything in car audio is lol. Ive made up myind now just gotta put it all in place

 

[dragnix 5,000+ posts]

Oh I'll def invest at least 200 on a good processor. Okay so I'm crossing the mid range woofers and tweets at 3k watts and getting some beefy tweets. What's a good processor you would recommend?

onboard xover off the HU. That's the only thing I ever had good experience with. And it's easier to make xover points since it's on digital display.

You can look into the RF 360.2 also, I've heard they're nice. Never used them, too pricey for me

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

Yeah to pricey with me too lol

 

[Slayerx 10+ year member]

I'd go 4-way if you can afford it and have room for all those speakers to go in optimal spots and proper installation in the vehicle. Placement as well as X-over points will all have to be adjusted and fine-tuned for, you can't just dive in with planned xover points as I'm sure you're aware. I'm a firm believer that 2-way front stages can sound as good as 3 or 4, but more X-over points gives you more control over the sound imo, and can tune it just how you want to your liking. If it's a perfectly flat response you're looking for with proper staging/imaging, 2 or 3-way is just as capable.

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I'm planning on crossover points as a start. But I'm def gonna have to do some tweaking

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i have found that running a dedicated midrange driver from around 200Hz - 5kHz allows you to cover the entire vocal range without any crossover points - because crossover points are where you run into phase interference, comb filtering, etc. ITD, IID, PLD, and HRTF all play a role in what you hear. good SQ systems address this in both driver placement/installation as well as crossover points. where you put the drivers will also determine what crossover points you should use.

i like a separate midbass driver (60-200Hz) because it takes that excursion out of the midrange. while a full range driver can reproduce a wide range of frequencies, the accuracy drops off as the driver is pushed harder. this is because few drivers are "underhung" and as a result, as the coil moves out of the voice coil gap - you lose control. this means the higher frequencies will be distorted as the driver loses control. a dedicated midbass pretty much solves that problem.

if you don't want to be very loud, then the fewer drivers you have, the better off you are. keep it simple.

but if you want higher volumes, separate drivers are where you'll get that volume AND clarity.

another reason for a dedicated midrange is placement. as i've said before, locating midbass in the kicks is difficult. midbass in doors is easy. a midrange in the kicks is easier as it is smaller (4" typ.) and requires less airspace for the frequency range. with my kick mids and door midbass, 160-200Hz is a good crossover point to keep bass in my sound stage. a crossover point above 200Hz causes my kick drum to move out of my sound stage. that is what my system does as a result of my driver selection/placement. each system is different.

if you have enough midbass, you can increase your sub crossover point. if you have T/A you can overlap midbass and sub so that you keep low bass in your sound stage as well. for example, my midbass have a 63Hz 6dB/oct high pass on them and my subs have a 80Hz 24dB/oct low pass. you cannot locate my subs, as my bass is in my sound stage. if my midbass is weaker, then i have to lower my sub crossover point to prevent localization. and yes, you can localize subs due to harmonics. while they are given frequencies lower than their crossover point, they can reproduce harmonics which you can and will locate.

active crossovers are pretty much required for testing. once you nail down your crossover points, then you could go passive if you wanted. but why waste the power? go active and have slope flexibility.

i'm very happy with a sub/midbass/midrange/tweeter system and i'll keep that recipe for a long time.