20 Hz bass questions:

[bigbang 10+ year member]

Hey, I am in search of the lowest, best sounding bass out there. I used to go for the loudest system, but I can't keep up with the space and monetary demands. First of all, I like the deepest notes, down to 20 Hz. I listen to metal, and surprizingly they record it with alot of ultra low bass. For instance they use pipe organs which go down into the tactile area of feeling, not hearing bass, below 20 Hz. Also I watch movies in the car and we know DVD's have plenty of ultra low frequency effects.

Anyway, originaly I had two 12's in a sealed, center divided box with 1.5 cubs per sub. Later, I built a new box the same size except with the total 3 cubs dedicated to a single of my 12's. I achieved a lower cutoff of course, but my question now is what if I put the two twelves back into the original box and created an opening through the center divider? Will they play as low as the single 12 in the 3 cub box or will it sound the same as two 12's in the original dual 1.5 cub box? I read its not good for two subs to share the same airspace due to slight differeces in the subs (Even if they are the same model) and due to interactions between the two. I wonder if this matters, especially if I follow symetry such as identical wire lengths, sub location, and running them off the same amp so that each sub recieves the exact same electric signal.

Ok now that the box question is out of the way, do you know of an equalizer dedicated to a sub, which will let me achieve a linear frequency responce through the whole 20-60 Hz range I am planning to use? I know the sub and box combo will roll off in the bottom octave and I know a little about the transfer funtion or cabin gain inside my sedan. Anyway, I hate bass knobs dialing in 40 Hz boosts. I want a totally linear bass response and I am not worried about over excursion, thats why I have alot of wattage and woofers with respectable xmax. If you know of a dedicated sub equalizer, and a way of attenuating the whole bass range and not just a limited frequency band please tell. Anyway heres my mouthfull and if anyone takes the time to help me out, I appreciate it alot. Thanks

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[B_Campbell 10+ year member]

uhh, new xxx I guess

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Instead of trying to EQ the sub 30 range to boost it, you might want to try a new enclosure.

A low tuned ported enclosure or a transmission line enclosure are two possible solutions to getting the 20hz range boosted while not overpowering the rest of the spectrum. That would be a much more efficient way of getting that region. While cutting everything and leaving the 20-30hz range alone on an EQ might help, your output will be significantly reduced.

 

[Earthman 10+ year member]

The only problem I see is when ppl don't use a divider for two drivers and run a stereo signal,ie left sub one channel right sub other channel.Without the divider they fight each other.This pertains to those running a two channel amp.Mono amp don't have this problemThat's why you run a mono signal so they both recieve the same information.A great example is BASS OUTLAWS last track called stereo bass.One sub recieves a low verberation (woofer woble) and the other a higher continuous brown note.Now the problem with mono is you're subs are only playing one side of the music.Have you ever switched rca's to hear what your missing?Some tracks sound different with the subs playing the other channel.

 

[jake760 10+ year member]

RE XXX 12", and put it in a box tuned low. You'll get plenty of excursion with this sub, check out some vids of it.

 

[azbass 5,000+ posts]

Hey, I am in search of the lowest, best sounding bass out there. I used to go for the loudest system, but I can't keep up with the space and monetary demands. First of all, I like the deepest notes, down to 20 Hz. I listen to metal, and surprizingly they record it with alot of ultra low bass. For instance they use pipe organs which go down into the tactile area of feeling, not hearing bass, below 20 Hz. Also I watch movies in the car and we know DVD's have plenty of ultra low frequency effects.

Anyway, originaly I had two 12's in a sealed, center divided box with 1.5 cubs per sub. Later, I built a new box the same size except with the total 3 cubs dedicated to a single of my 12's. I achieved a lower cutoff of course, but my question now is what if I put the two twelves back into the original box and created an opening through the center divider? Will they play as low as the single 12 in the 3 cub box or will it sound the same as two 12's in the original dual 1.5 cub box? I read its not good for two subs to share the same airspace due to slight differeces in the subs (Even if they are the same model) and due to interactions between the two. I wonder if this matters, especially if I follow symetry such as identical wire lengths, sub location, and running them off the same amp so that each sub recieves the exact same electric signal.

Ok now that the box question is out of the way, do you know of an equalizer dedicated to a sub, which will let me achieve a linear frequency responce through the whole 20-60 Hz range I am planning to use? I know the sub and box combo will roll off in the bottom octave and I know a little about the transfer funtion or cabin gain inside my sedan. Anyway, I hate bass knobs dialing in 40 Hz boosts. I want a totally linear bass response and I am not worried about over excursion, thats why I have alot of wattage and woofers with respectable xmax. If you know of a dedicated sub equalizer, and a way of attenuating the whole bass range and not just a limited frequency band please tell. Anyway heres my mouthfull and if anyone takes the time to help me out, I appreciate it alot. Thanks

 

[Calikid 5,000+ posts]

Hey, I am in search of the lowest, best sounding bass out there. I used to go for the loudest system, but I can't keep up with the space and monetary demands. First of all, I like the deepest notes, down to 20 Hz. I listen to metal, and surprizingly they record it with alot of ultra low bass. For instance they use pipe organs which go down into the tactile area of feeling, not hearing bass, below 20 Hz. Also I watch movies in the car and we know DVD's have plenty of ultra low frequency effects.

Anyway, originaly I had two 12's in a sealed, center divided box with 1.5 cubs per sub. Later, I built a new box the same size except with the total 3 cubs dedicated to a single of my 12's. I achieved a lower cutoff of course, but my question now is what if I put the two twelves back into the original box and created an opening through the center divider? Will they play as low as the single 12 in the 3 cub box or will it sound the same as two 12's in the original dual 1.5 cub box? I read its not good for two subs to share the same airspace due to slight differeces in the subs (Even if they are the same model) and due to interactions between the two. I wonder if this matters, especially if I follow symetry such as identical wire lengths, sub location, and running them off the same amp so that each sub recieves the exact same electric signal.

Ok now that the box question is out of the way, do you know of an equalizer dedicated to a sub, which will let me achieve a linear frequency responce through the whole 20-60 Hz range I am planning to use? I know the sub and box combo will roll off in the bottom octave and I know a little about the transfer funtion or cabin gain inside my sedan. Anyway, I hate bass knobs dialing in 40 Hz boosts. I want a totally linear bass response and I am not worried about over excursion, thats why I have alot of wattage and woofers with respectable xmax. If you know of a dedicated sub equalizer, and a way of attenuating the whole bass range and not just a limited frequency band please tell. Anyway heres my mouthfull and if anyone takes the time to help me out, I appreciate it alot. Thanks

 

[Decipha 10+ year member]

Hey, I am in search of the lowest, best sounding bass out there. I used to go for the loudest system, but I can't keep up with the space and monetary demands. First of all, I like the deepest notes, down to 20 Hz. I listen to metal, and surprizingly they record it with alot of ultra low bass. For instance they use pipe organs which go down into the tactile area of feeling, not hearing bass, below 20 Hz. Also I watch movies in the car and we know DVD's have plenty of ultra low frequency effects.

Anyway, originaly I had two 12's in a sealed, center divided box with 1.5 cubs per sub. Later, I built a new box the same size except with the total 3 cubs dedicated to a single of my 12's. I achieved a lower cutoff of course, but my question now is what if I put the two twelves back into the original box and created an opening through the center divider? Will they play as low as the single 12 in the 3 cub box or will it sound the same as two 12's in the original dual 1.5 cub box? I read its not good for two subs to share the same airspace due to slight differeces in the subs (Even if they are the same model) and due to interactions between the two. I wonder if this matters, especially if I follow symetry such as identical wire lengths, sub location, and running them off the same amp so that each sub recieves the exact same electric signal.

Ok now that the box question is out of the way, do you know of an equalizer dedicated to a sub, which will let me achieve a linear frequency responce through the whole 20-60 Hz range I am planning to use? I know the sub and box combo will roll off in the bottom octave and I know a little about the transfer funtion or cabin gain inside my sedan. Anyway, I hate bass knobs dialing in 40 Hz boosts. I want a totally linear bass response and I am not worried about over excursion, thats why I have alot of wattage and woofers with respectable xmax. If you know of a dedicated sub equalizer, and a way of attenuating the whole bass range and not just a limited frequency band please tell. Anyway heres my mouthfull and if anyone takes the time to help me out, I appreciate it alot. Thanks

 

[Grinder1989 5,000+ posts]

what is going on?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

The only problem I see is when ppl don't use a divider for two drivers and run a stereo signal,ie left sub one channel right sub other channel.Without the divider they fight each other.This pertains to those running a two channel amp.Mono amp don't have this problemThat's why you run a mono signal so they both recieve the same information.A great example is BASS OUTLAWS last track called stereo bass.One sub recieves a low verberation (woofer woble) and the other a higher continuous brown note.Now the problem with mono is you're subs are only playing one side of the music.Have you ever switched rca's to hear what your missing?Some tracks sound different with the subs playing the other channel.

well when you are talking about subs, you are not really gunna be able to hear a difference between 2 subs sitting right next to each other infact you probly won't hear a difference unless one of the subs in infront of you and one is behind you... that is why it doesn't make a whole lot of sence to have stereo bass, most songs won't be able to tell the difference between stereo and mono bass anyway. thats why even in some of the most expensive home theater systems out there (where imageing is everything) you still only have a single channel for bass

 

[bigbang 10+ year member]

Hey, thanks for everyones feedback. Let me clarify myself a little more. I am running are two pioneer premier TSW 3004 SPL's off of two MTX 1501D's. What I'm still not getting is this. A single woofer in a three cubic foot box has a lower cutoff than if it was in a 1 1/2 cub box. I found this out and I love the extended bottom end. but if I put two woofers in a 3 cub box, without a divider in the middle, both sharing the same airspace, is the cutoff frequency going to go up as if each woofer was playing in only 1 1/2 feet of air?

For instance, if I had 10 woofers in a ten cubic foot sealed box, no dividers, is the system going to play super low because there is so much air volume in the box, or is each of the woofers going to play as if it only had a cubic foot of air apiece.

If I had alot of room, I might try a very large ported box, but I am limeted in the area of a 3 cubic foot gross box. I am not concerned about over excursion or loudness. All I want is the most aqurate bass with extreme low end extension. I also prefer sealed because of the 12db rolloff below f3 and because the woofer has more damping so it sounds more acurate when dealing with the very fast drummers in alot of the metal I listen to. Tell me what you think.

Also I found that running one MTX off the output of the other one causes a slight phase difference between the two, so I use Y addapters on my interconects so that each amp, sub has the same signal. I dont use the remote bass nob because I just dial in bass at the pioneer head unit so that it also gets factored in at the crossovers and any spillover from the sub frequencys goes to the midbass's.

 

[60ndown 10+ year member]

13w7 ported @ 28 and 2500 wrms class a/b.

 

[bigbang 10+ year member]

Do woofers behave acording to the volume of the box, regardless of how many woofers share that airspace or do they act as if the box volume is divided by the number of woofers? Somebody has to know.

If I can put two 12's in a three cubic foot box without a center divider and have the low frequency extension I currently have with a single 12 in a three cubic foot box, I'll start rebuilding the whole **** thing tommorow!

 

[amartin_72]

those 3004's arent low end monsters. any time you have multiple subs you are dividing the total box size by the number of subs. 2 in 3ft is the same as 2 in 1.5 each. To get more lows out of your pioneer try at least 2.0ft not much more or they dont take much power, but 2 tuned to 31-33 with 35-40 in of port area. a single large port will hit lower than multiple smaller ports so try a 40 in slot port but not more than 2 ft if you have a true 1000rms for it.

 

[bigbang 10+ year member]

those 3004's arent low end monsters. any time you have multiple subs you are dividing the total box size by the number of subs. 2 in 3ft is the same as 2 in 1.5 each. To get more lows out of your pioneer try at least 2.0ft not much more or they dont take much power, but 2 tuned to 31-33 with 35-40 in of port area. a single large port will hit lower than multiple smaller ports so try a 40 in slot port but not more than 2 ft if you have a true 1000rms for it.

The Premiers have very good T/S specs, thats why I chose them for low end freq responce, They have an Fs of 26.2, Qts .32, Vas 1.32feet. I wondered if they were really designed for SPL. Of course they had high power handling but such a low Fs doesn't suit SPL performance. If your right about the box volume, then I'm stuck. I'll keep my 3 cube box with single sub. Any ideas on a 2ohm 12" sub with alot of Xmax and the low frequency performance? I know I can get more output than the premier with 11.2mm xmax.