1000 watts in Class D and Class AB

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

You do not want to know how bad the fact that something was pointed out as being "wrong" with my Mustang's system is eating at me right now.... REALLY BAD:verymad:

I guess I need to work on not being a stubborn perfectionist but there will be a change in my Mustang's system, and it will come SOON! I am thinking of going with ALL Linear Power amplifiers and an active crossover setup. If that doesn't work, then I am getting a set of $1,200 in ear headphones and driving around with a dreadlock wig to hide the headphones

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

For the record, the Lunar is LESS power than the Hifonics, but it sounded cleaner and more precise.

Exactly.

I'd need more details of this "comparison", but my initial guess would be that you haven't proven that class A/B sounds better than class D. You've proven that your subs sounded better at a lower output level.....which is pretty self-evident given the relationship between distortion/accuracy and output/power. It sounds like the Hifonics was capable of driving the subs outside the acceptable range of accuracy (muddy, etc), whereas the Lunar was not. So was this an audible difference in amplifier class, or an audible difference in power?

This is one of the problems with this discussion. People will consider any comparison they do to be a valid comparison able to identify a single variable, when they are not even remotely close to being able to do so. Even the simple fact that you knew which amplifier you were listening to completely invalidates your comparison. Unless you conducted the experiment in a highly controlled, double blind setting, your results are meaningless. Utterly and completely meaningless. And most certainly do not demonstrate any audible difference between amplifier classes.

If my initial guess is accurate, then I could have gotten the same results without even changing amplifiers.

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

You are correct, for that particular application the Lunar was definitely the best for those subs. I am not going to know any more until I swap out my 25 to Life Power 1000 in the Mustang. Even then, it still will not be an apples to apples comparison.

The birthsheet on my Power 1000 shows 697 watts RMS on the Class D output section @ 2 ohms. My Linear Power 5002 will make 850 watts RMS @ 8 ohms. In theory it will be hard to tell a difference in terms of RMS output, but I think the Linear Power will deliver more dynamic power with the potential to hit 1,600 to 1,700 watts for a fraction of a second. This alone could be the difference maker too. Where does the Class D power amp start to peter out compared to a Class A/B amplifier? Does distortion rise faster as a Class D meets or exceeds its maximum RMS capabilities?

I guess I could try my Soundstream Reference 700s @ 2 ohms on the 13w6v2 because that will be closer to the Power 1000's Class D output in terms of power, but again, there is no way the test can be scientific because I will be the one doing the testing and tuning. Also again, what about the maximum dynamic power output?

I think you may have just helped me stumble onto something regarding Class D versus Class AB that I completely overlooked. Maybe it is clipping, distortion, or a lack of dynamic power that is making the fast transients seem like one big "blah". Or maybe the Hifonics was able to drive the subwoofers to their physical limitations. Or maybe I have perfect pitch in the sub bass frequencies

 

[cleansoundzz 10+ year member]

I have a Precision Power PCX 2200 bridged at 4 ohms to 2 10's in my 300zx and a Lanzar Optidrive 1000.1D in my 4 Runner. So in the Z, I have a Class A/B running the subs and in the 4 Runner a class D running my subs. There is a clear difference in bass, although both sound really really good. The class A/B in my mind is more musical and follows the notes of the music very well. I will say this though. The PCX 2200 gets hot and does seem to drain the system a little more than when I had a class D in the Z. The PCX doesn't get too too hot though. For a person who plays rap all day with heavy bass, I can see why a class A/B wouldn't work. I listen to a lot of R&B and Reggae so I am not too hard on my amps. In my 20's I would have burned them out though but not now. As I get older, I am strictly about more sound quality.

 

[pjhabit 10+ year member]

Interesting read. Anybody have any links to these controled/blind tests?

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

theres a difference in sound over quality class D amps and crap class D amps also

 

[cleansoundzz 10+ year member]

Good point

 

[brian84corvette 10+ year member]

please expand upon quality class d amps....

are we talking like - rd / sundown / + what else = quality

and names like - hifonics / crunch / + others = cheep fuzzy bass ?

and does frequency range have anything to do with this ? as I have seen most mono amps

are only re producing hz from 20 up to around 350. / vs the class a/b amps are capable of full range ?

so if wanted - you could run your subs from like 20hz up to 500+hz ? no?

as I noticed today that my bxi1206d did not realley like alot of classic rock music I

just got from my moms. rap is great on it. and stuff like Korn is ok too.

but I do see what people mean by "muddy" bass as my ears can now tell the diffrence.

shit. - I guess that means im getting older....

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

The Digital Designs class d amplifiers are what I would consider high quality. I heard one and it was one of the few that actually sounded pretty dang good on music. I am hoping to audition another while work is shut down between Christmas and New Year's Day. My luck, I will get called in to work //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

Muddy bass isn't just limited to Class D amplifiers. I remember back in the day when people were running whole systems off of Orion HCCA 225s, 250s, or 100s @ 1/4 to 1/2 ohm.... I always thought the bass AND highs sounded funny out of those systems. Many setups I heard had the highs cut out every time the bass hit. Bachbusters, a Telarc Production, was popular back then and many of those systems couldn't keep up with Toccata & Fugue in D minor.

Don't get me wrong, they did get loud for their power class, but they paid the ultimate price by not having the best SQ out of their setups. Another plus was that you could grill hot dogs on the amplifier heat sinks after about 15 minutes of play time //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

I have a Precision Power PCX 2200 bridged at 4 ohms to 2 10's in my 300zx and a Lanzar Optidrive 1000.1D in my 4 Runner. So in the Z, I have a Class A/B running the subs and in the 4 Runner a class D running my subs. There is a clear difference in bass, although both sound really really good.

Even IF the subs are identical AND the enclosures are identical AND you matched the gains AND the x/o points (all of which would be needed to make a semi-valid comparison) you're still comparing sound in two VERY different listening environments.

The only thing you've discovered is that SOMETHING sounds different, probably a combination of several things, the least of which is the topology of the sub amps.

 

[groundpound4200 5,000+ posts]

From my personal experience I went from a JBL BP1200.1 (Class D, 1200 watts at 1 ohm) to an Orion HCCA 275 G4 (Class AB, 1200 watts at 1 ohm mono) and there was an audible difference. The Orion wasn't necessarily louder but there was something different... can't quite put my finger on it. BTW I liked the Orion a lot better.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I have a Precision Power PCX 2200 bridged at 4 ohms to 2 10's in my 300zx and a Lanzar Optidrive 1000.1D in my 4 Runner. So in the Z, I have a Class A/B running the subs and in the 4 Runner a class D running my subs. There is a clear difference in bass, although both sound really really good. The class A/B in my mind is more musical and follows the notes of the music very well.

And this difference couldn't possibly have something to do with the different response of the two different vehicles, different setups, etc?

You claim it's the class of the amp that makes them sound different //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[cleansoundzz 10+ year member]

People try hard to defend class D amps. That's for sure. It's a matter of listening to the woofers rather than the environment. For me I like to unplug the RCA's from the mid amps to listen to the bass exclusively. With the mids and highs on in both vehicles it is hard to really listen to the bass clearly. Once I cut off the mids and highs the differences are really apparent. To be clear, I am not bashing Class D amplifiers. I just want to hear other people's opinons.

 

[loud-n-low 10+ year member]

ive always preferred A/B. would I know I was hearing a class d blind folded..probably not. I just remember when class d started getting popular for subs in the 90's and the bashing of them was significant

 

[cleansoundzz 10+ year member]

There is a reason why companies are still making large class A/B amplifiers in addition with mono block amps. For people it is just a matter of preference.