Current events discussion

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Now I know you don't read every word I post. I have not said China will pay a US-imposed IMPORT tariff. By the way, you were one letter away from spelling the whole words. Stop being pretentious. Stop trying to make arguments from nothing because you choose to ignore what people type.

I have said several times that the IMPORTER can refuse to pay the tariff and refuse the product. Which will affect CHINA.

Trump has placed IMPORT tariffs on goods coming from other countries.

This whole discussion is about the IMPORT tariffs that Trump is imposing on the goods that come from other countries.
WHY would you have been arguing about anything but the IMPORT tariffs that Trump has imposed, in a discussion about the IMPORT tariffs that Trump has imposed?

You just claimed that "I have not said China will pay a US-imposed IMPORT tariff."

Here are two posts where you very clearly say they DO pay our US-imposed import tariff:

"We charge CHINA the high tariff".

Here you say China pockets $75 on a $100 item after the tariff. SO, CHINA pays that tariff.

Can you reconcile the contradictions, or do you now finally understand who pays a US-imposed IMPORT tariff?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Trump has placed IMPORT tariffs on goods coming from other countries.

This whole discussion is about the IMPORT tariffs that Trump is imposing on the goods that come from other countries.
WHY would you have been arguing about anything but the IMPORT tariffs that Trump has imposed, in a discussion about the IMPORT tariffs that Trump has imposed?

You just claimed that "I have not said China will pay a US-imposed IMPORT tariff."

Here are two posts where you very clearly say they DO pay our US-imposed import tariff:
View attachment 64492
"We charge CHINA the high tariff".

View attachment 64493
Here you say China pockets $75 on a $100 item after the tariff. SO, CHINA pays that tariff.

Can you reconcile the contradictions, or do you now finally understand who pays a US-imposed IMPORT tariff?

Yup, just as I thought. You aren't using the same language the rest of the world is using about tariffs.

Tariffs imposed on CHINA are paid to the US government. IF THEY ARE COLLECTED.

I clearly can't explain it to you and then force you to understand.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Let's try the math. I'm a retailer. I sell ONE product, at a kiosk in the mall.
It is a little radio controlled car. I make my nut by simply keystoning my COGS.

The little cars cost me $5 each. I sell them for $10. That is a $5 profit.
50 cars sold a day is $250 profit.
With the 25% tariff, they now cost me $6.25 each. I now must sell them for $12.50 each. That is a $6.25 profit.
50 cars sold a day is $312.50 profit

By every version of math I am familiar with, a profit of $6.25 per car is more than a profit of $5.00 per car.
A profit of $312.50 per day is more than a profit of $250 per day.

What version of math are you applying that shows no extra profit when the tariff is applied?
Or, do you think I'm going to take a $1.25 profit hit per car sold? Why would I do that? Because MAGA Winning?
I don't think so.

Except you could continue selling the cars for $10 or jack the price up $15. As I've mentioned before, I know a furniture retailer that reached an agreement with his Chinese manufactures to keep retail prices the same and split the cost of the tariff. Does that qualify as the exporter paying the tariff?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Except you could continue selling the cars for $10 or jack the price up $15. As I've mentioned before, I know a furniture retailer that reached an agreement with his Chinese manufactures to keep retail prices the same and split the cost of the tariff. Does that qualify as the exporter paying the tariff?

100% the exporter can be affected too.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Except you could continue selling the cars for $10 or jack the price up $15. As I've mentioned before, I know a furniture retailer that reached an agreement with his Chinese manufactures to keep retail prices the same and split the cost of the tariff. Does that qualify as the exporter paying the tariff?

So you want me to take a 25% hit to my profit in order to punish China? if anything, I have to sell MORE cars to make my nut, which means China is selling me more cars. A win for China.

A 25% profit loss means I close up shop. Winning?

The furniture retailer example is a case of semantics. The US seller is still paying the tariff, but getting reimbursed by the exporter. So the exporter is absorbing some of the costs, but not paying them.

But that means the US retailer is taking a hit to his profits as his cost has gone up 12.5%, but his selling price has remained flat.
He buys that chair for $100 and sells it for $200. $100 profit.
He now pays $112.50 and sells for $200. $88.50 profit.

Unless EVERY importer gets EVERY exporter to reimburse 100% of that tariff, only two things can happen:
1. The retailer keeps prices flat and loses money due to the tariff.
2. The retailer increases prices to cover COGS, and the consumer pays more for the goods they buy.

MAGA winning?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Damn......three years? What the heck are you doing? Shirts just falling apart in the wash or something? I mean.....I'll admit that the stitching does come undone every once in a while.....but not often enough that I feel it's a widespread issue. Also.....in terms of what's considered quality......that's a bit subjective. Personally.....I prefer lighter materials like tri-blends (cotton/poly/rayon) because I think they're way more comfortable than 100% cotton shirts. But certainly heavier cotton shirts (like most all tees made decades back) are going to be more durable on average.

I consistently see the stitching come undone or another common one is a lack of material so the material just pulls away. Or the material itself just begins to disintegrate.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

So you want me to take a 25% hit to my profit in order to punish China? if anything, I have to sell MORE cares to make my nut, which means China is selling me more cars.

A 25% profit loss means I close up shop. Winning?

The furniture retailer example is a case of semantics. The US seller is still paying the tariff, but getting reimbursed by the exporter. So the exporter is absorbing some of the costs, but not paying them.

But that means the US retailer is taking a hit to his profits as his cost has gone up 12.5%, but his selling price has remained flat.
He buys that chair for $100 and sells it for $200. $100 profit.
He now pays $112.50 and sells for $200. $88.50 profit.

Unless EVERY importer gets EVERY exporter to reimburse 100% of that tariff, only two things can happen:
1. The retailer keeps prices flat and loses money due to the tariff.
2. The retailer increases prices to cover COGS, and the consumer pays more for the goods they buy.

MAGA winning?

What I would expect you to do is maximize profits. So in the real life example I gave, the importer felt his profits would be maximized by leaving prices the same and eating half the tariff and the exporter agreed with him and ate the other half of the tariff.
So in your hypothetical case, if you would sell same number of cars at $12.50 as you would at $10, then you would already be selling them at $12.50. If you would only sell half as many cars at $12.50, it would make more sense to keep the price at $10 and eat the $1.25.

But let's ignore my anecdotal example & your hypothetical example. If tariffs undoubtedly drove up profits, then why are the markets & business leaders reacting negatively to tariffs? Since when have markets reacted negatively to increased profits?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Yup, just as I thought. You aren't using the same language the rest of the world is using about tariffs.

Tariffs imposed on CHINA are paid to the US government. IF THEY ARE COLLECTED.

I clearly can't explain it to you and then force you to understand.

In reality, there exists the possibility that anybody could pay them, most likely everybody will pay them or maybe nobody will pay them. Ironically, this is the first time I've ever seen libs oppose taxes.

I never thought all the right had to do to get the left to support war & oppose taxes would be for right to oppose war and support a tax. Ironically, if the DNC proposed a national sales tax to bridge the SS shortfall the libs would cheer from the rooftops. But a tax designed to create jobs and it's the end of the world.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

What I would expect you to do is maximize profits. So in the real life example I gave, the importer felt his profits would be maximized by leaving prices the same and eating half the tariff and the exporter agreed with him and ate the other half of the tariff.
So in your hypothetical case, if you would sell same number of cars at $12.50 as you would at $10, then you would already be selling them at $12.50. If you would only sell half as many cars at $12.50, it would make more sense to keep the price at $10 and eat the $1.25.

But let's ignore my anecdotal example & your hypothetical example. If tariffs undoubtedly drove up profits, then why are the markets & business leaders reacting negatively to tariffs? Since when have markets reacted negatively to increased profits?

Tariffs will drive up profits if prices are increased to match them, and sales remain the same.
A 25% tariff can cause a price increase of 40% or more.

Maybe the business leaders are concerned that a 25% tariff resulting in a 40% or more price increase will hurt their sales enough to offset the additional profit they get on goods?
A 40% price increase in one fell swoop is a pretty big deal in retail. I'm sure there is statistical evidence out there that compares price increases to sales decreases, and shows how much of a price increase you can get away with before you start losing sales, just like they can tell how price decreases may increase sales. I remember a number of 10% or less, but that could be off by a bit.

It's a science that retailers know very well. At least the ones who stay in business.

Many US companies have already announced projected profit loss due to the tariffs. That makes their stock less palatable to a new investor, and pushes existing investors to pull their money and hold, or find another stock to put their money in.
When people start dumping, it lowers the stock price, which leads other people to start dumping, which lowers the price more, and so on.

Black Monday

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Profit if the sales continue. It doesn't take much for the general public to back off when prices increase. If the public chooses to go without, everyone loses money.

Nice nostalgic picture.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Profit if the sales continue. It doesn't take much for the general public to back off when prices increase. If the public chooses to go without, everyone loses money.

Nice nostalgic picture.

Right.

And so if we assume the 10% max target before sales start falling off, 40% or more can be crushing.
So our retailers get crushed in order to hurt China.

Gas, for example. They say a 10% price jump causes a 2.5% reduction in sales.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

OUCH!

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

OUCH!

View attachment 64499

So choose a different shipping method or supplier... maybe one stateside. DHL sucks *** anyway.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

So choose a different shipping method or supplier... maybe one stateside. DHL sucks *** anyway.

Which one would you recommend that doesn't collect import duties, and will just pay them on behalf of importer?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Dude, stop being a cheapskate and support your local businesses here stateside... Buy local man. Come on!! Don't be a part of the problem, be part of the solution. The Republican party solution. Lower prices, government accountability, world wide respect, fair trade, world wide peace... eventually.