Current events discussion

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Completely depends on how you look at it. China as a whole benefited from the extra income coming from the U.S. while the people living here experience more buying power of the dollar due to lower costs. I don't understand why people look at our trade with China in such a black and white way. There's such thing as mutually beneficial trade.

I mentioned we got cheaper goods, so yes we got a benefit out of it or the trade wouldn't have happened in the first place. I don't think any American can honestly look at the net results of 30 years of "free trade" with China and think we got the better of the deal or anything near a fair deal out it. I'm getting cheap goods that fall apart more frequently, so often times I'm not even saving money.

Most likely. It's going to have to be addressed eventually. Sooner rather than later would be better.



It can't last. In the end both the United States and China are dependent upon one another. As I said above, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, there's no reason that the U.S. cannot bolster manufacturing here in the coming years/decades. Targeted tariffs that help to protect our most important manufacturing industries is 100% a good foreign policy. But blanket tariffs are not. Too many "inferior" goods that don't make sense for us to manufacture due to the added costs related to labor. Not to mention that we don't even have the population to support manufacturing everything that the country needs. International trade will never go away. And the fact is that the U.S. is one of the wealthiest and most powerful countries in the world. We're going to buy and consume more from other countries than they'll buy from us in general.

The reason you don’t see American goods selling well in other countries, is because other countries have high tariffs on US goods. That way their people buy their goods. Canada has done this for years. That’s why Canadians come into the United States to buy US goods. It’s cheaper here than what they can buy it there.

And actually if you buy gas, you are/were helping Canada. Because we export oil from Canada. Now I know a lot of people in the oil industry. And they hate Canadian oil. Because it’s crude oil and takes a lot of refining to use it.

We allowed China to send billions of their cheap good here without tariff, while they tariffed our goods. They want to sell here without a tariff, but don’t want American goods to sell there.

A lot of you are too young to remember the late 80’s early 90’s where we had American made amps. Yes, they were expensive but, the customer service was top notch. And then we started letting China sell their stuff and American companies couldn’t compete with cheap Chinese amps. So China basically cost American businesses to shut down and American workers to lose their jobs.

At least China often does a half decent job with amps and subwoofers. I stopped buying coffee makers because they would break every couple of years. The quality of clothing & shoes has gone way down hill too. Let's bring those manufacturing jobs back to the US and create new ones in Latin America.

 

[Eggs 5,000+ posts]

 

[administrator]

I hate to ask again, but the site still needs all the help it can get right now. The week everyone pitched in was great, but it takes time for search issues to be resolved. The less posting new users see, will make them not want to post either and not return, etc. I sound like a broken record, I know, but I can’t reiterate it enough.

This site doesn’t run itself for free and this thread being the only active thread is a bit of a slap in the face. I’m doing what I can technically wise on the backend, but unfortunately still need all the assistance you can provide on the front end.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

What are you getting excited for? I did not come close to saying anything about an exporter in China. I think you may just be wanting to argue so you are assuming I am saying something untrue. I am not making anything up here. China can send all they like but that doesn't mean it will enter this country. I tried to simplify the example... the explanation for you. You apparently don't understand it or just want to argue.

Tariffs are a profit.
China profits from tariffs on the US.
We profit from tariffs on China.
China isn't playing FAIR.
Trump raised tariffs on China to 125%.
This will increase our profit... IF the importer pays the tariff. Which they don't have to. They can say no, the tariff is too high, we refuse your product. Now China loses money from the sale, loses money from transporting the product. This works on higher priced products. On lower priced products the importer may/will pay the tariff and the country profits. If the cost is too much for the consumer then the demand will go down, the importer will refuse that product as well and China loses another sale, loses money from transporting the product.

Tariffs are a tax/duty, NOT a profit.
I'll try again, because you seem to have completely missed the following:

"So tell me: Exactly HOW does Trump make Mr. Yeng pay a 25% tariff on the $1,000 of product he has just shipped out to me after running my credit card?
The product that is now in a shipping container with product from all of the other Chinese exporters. The product that Mr Yeng has charged me and collected $1,000 from Visa for.
And Mr Yeng has emptied out his bank accounts, closed his business, and moved to Australia to live off the grid.
HOW does Trump make Mr. Yeng pay a 25% tariff on the $1,000 of product he has just shipped out to me after running my credit card?

It's a very simple question and will fully prove or disprove your theory that the EXPORTER in China will pay the IMPORT tariff on something I buy.
I asked twice to show I am looking for an actual answer, and not a tangential discussion, complaint, claim that I have TDS, claim that "Trump said so", claim that I don't understand words like "import" or "export", or any such nonsense."

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

I mentioned we got cheaper goods, so yes we got a benefit out of it or the trade wouldn't have happened in the first place. I don't think any American can honestly look at the net results of 30 years of "free trade" with China and think we got the better of the deal or anything near a fair deal out it. I'm getting cheap goods that fall apart more frequently, so often times I'm not even saving money.



At least China often does a half decent job with amps and subwoofers. I stopped buying coffee makers because they would break every couple of years. The quality of clothing & shoes has gone way down hill too. Let's bring those manufacturing jobs back to the US and create new ones in Latin America.

Clothing and shoes will never be mass manufactured here. Other countries can make it far cheaper. I certainly haven't noticed any quality issues with clothing or shoes.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

No, the tariff doesn't give more profit to the seller, that's just something you're saying because it fits a narrative. If the tariffs were indeed so profitable for sellers as you claim, why did the markets rather than rally when the tariffs hit?

Let's try the math. I'm a retailer. I sell ONE product, at a kiosk in the mall.
It is a little radio controlled car. I make my nut by simply keystoning my COGS.

The little cars cost me $5 each. I sell them for $10. That is a $5 profit.
50 cars sold a day is $250 profit.
With the 25% tariff, they now cost me $6.25 each. I now must sell them for $12.50 each. That is a $6.25 profit.
50 cars sold a day is $312.50 profit

By every version of math I am familiar with, a profit of $6.25 per car is more than a profit of $5.00 per car.
A profit of $312.50 per day is more than a profit of $250 per day.

What version of math are you applying that shows no extra profit when the tariff is applied?
Or, do you think I'm going to take a $1.25 profit hit per car sold? Why would I do that? Because MAGA Winning?
I don't think so.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Clothing and shoes will never be mass manufactured here. Other countries can make it far cheaper. I certainly haven't noticed any quality issues with clothing or shoes.

It costs about $6 for Nike Brazil to make a pair of sneakers that sell for $150 here.
How much would it cost to make them here?

If we bring mfg here, WHO absorbs the money lost by making them in the US, versus Brazil? SOMEONE has to lose money.
The consumer? The manufacturer? The retailer?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

I hate to ask again, but the site still needs all the help it can get right now. The week everyone pitched in was great, but it takes time for search issues to be resolved. The less posting new users see, will make them not want to post either and not return, etc. I sound like a broken record, I know, but I can’t reiterate it enough.

This site doesn’t run itself for free and this thread being the only active thread is a bit of a slap in the face. I’m doing what I can technically wise on the backend, but unfortunately still need all the assistance you can provide on the front end.

I check new posts regularly and try to respond, but there's not a whole lot of new stuff going on (unless the "What's New" section is not sorting by date).

Should we just start tossing random topic car audio posts out there to stir up some discussion?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Tariffs are a tax/duty, NOT a profit.
I'll try again, because you seem to have completely missed the following:

"So tell me: Exactly HOW does Trump make Mr. Yeng pay a 25% tariff on the $1,000 of product he has just shipped out to me after running my credit card?
The product that is now in a shipping container with product from all of the other Chinese exporters. The product that Mr Yeng has charged me and collected $1,000 from Visa for.
And Mr Yeng has emptied out his bank accounts, closed his business, and moved to Australia to live off the grid.
HOW does Trump make Mr. Yeng pay a 25% tariff on the $1,000 of product he has just shipped out to me after running my credit card?

It's a very simple question and will fully prove or disprove your theory that the EXPORTER in China will pay the IMPORT tariff on something I buy.
I asked twice to show I am looking for an actual answer, and not a tangential discussion, complaint, claim that I have TDS, claim that "Trump said so", claim that I don't understand words like "import" or "export", or any such nonsense."

See, this is what you do. You will force your point over and over and when someone says no, and lays down their point you try to shut them down, over-explain your point, demand answers then ignore anything they say or questions THEY have and continue to demand YOUR answers. Then, true to form you try to tell me how to answer.

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

It costs about $6 for Nike Brazil to make a pair of sneakers that sell for $150 here.
How much would it cost to make them here?

If we bring mfg here, WHO absorbs the money lost by making them in the US, versus Brazil? SOMEONE has to lose money.
The consumer? The manufacturer? The retailer?

Nike is a unique case too. They are able to put a pretty big markup on their products due to brand premium. They could actually manufacture domestically and still be quite profitable. Problem is that they are publicly traded, like many companies. Their profit margins help drive share price. Right or wrong.....there's no way that they could actually justify the move to domestic manufacturing and lower profits to shareholders without the BOD and the execs being voted out. Self-interest rules corporate culture....as well as politics and just about everything. They aren't making a move that brash. Neither are the scores of other companies that take advantage of (US consumers take advantage of too) much cheaper labor costs overseas.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Clothing and shoes will never be mass manufactured here. Other countries can make it far cheaper. I certainly haven't noticed any quality issues with clothing or shoes.

I have 35 year old shirts t-shirts. I'm lucky to get 3 years out of modern t-shirts. I can definitely see the difference in shoes. I no longer buy Sketchers because of quality issues and corners they've cut. I've seen the same from Nike & Acsics.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

I have 35 year old shirts t-shirts. I'm lucky to get 3 years out of modern t-shirts. I can definitely see the difference in shoes. I no longer buy Sketchers because of quality issues and corners they've cut. I've seen the same from Nike & Acsics.

I'm glad I am not the only one. Sketchers blow now. The souls flatten quickly.

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

I have 35 year old shirts t-shirts. I'm lucky to get 3 years out of modern t-shirts. I can definitely see the difference in shoes. I no longer buy Sketchers because of quality issues and corners they've cut. I've seen the same from Nike & Acsics.

Damn......three years? What the heck are you doing? Shirts just falling apart in the wash or something? I mean.....I'll admit that the stitching does come undone every once in a while.....but not often enough that I feel it's a widespread issue. Also.....in terms of what's considered quality......that's a bit subjective. Personally.....I prefer lighter materials like tri-blends (cotton/poly/rayon) because I think they're way more comfortable than 100% cotton shirts. But certainly heavier cotton shirts (like most all tees made decades back) are going to be more durable on average.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

See, this is what you do. You will force your point over and over and when someone says no, and lays down their point you try to shut them down, over-explain your point, demand answers then ignore anything they say or questions THEY have and continue to demand YOUR answers. Then, true to form you try to tell me how to answer.

OK. We'll run this tangent for a second.

You are arguing that the Chinese will pay a US-imposed IMPRT tariff.
I am arguing that the US-based IMPRTER will pay the US-imposed IMPORT tariff.

I provide the law that says the IMPRTER pays. I provide a reference to the .gov website that says the IMPORTER will pay. I give you a very simple real-world example of a transaction, and ask you to make choices that explain that real-world example.

You then ignore the example, ignore the request for you to indicate your choices, ignore the questions that would clarify your understanding of the topic.
Instead, you post a handful of factually incorrect talking points that you heard somewhere:
"Tariffs are a profit.
China profits from tariffs on the US.
We profit from tariffs on China.
China isn't playing FAIR.
Trump raised tariffs on China to 125%."

You complain about "conversation", yet your "conversation" is simply posting random responses that are not relevant to the immediate discussion, and that are simply for beliefs or opinions, or regurgitated beliefs and opinions that you heard elsewhere.

WHY?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

OK. We'll run this tangent for a second.

You are arguing that the Chinese will pay a US-imposed IMPRT tariff.
I am arguing that the US-based IMPRTER will pay the US-imposed IMPORT tariff.

Now I know you don't read every word I post. I have not said China will pay a US-imposed IMPORT tariff. By the way, you were one letter away from spelling the whole words. Stop being pretentious. Stop trying to make arguments from nothing because you choose to ignore what people type.

I have said several times that the IMPORTER can refuse to pay the tariff and refuse the product. Which will affect CHINA.