Adding more Midbass ... double 6.5" or single 8" ... ? ... Ported or Sealed ... ?

[Rsx_03 10+ year member]

Current Setup

PPI 1000.1 >> JL 12w7 ($50 at local pawn //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif, sorry if it was stolen from you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif ported at 31hz

PPI 300.2 >> Crystal SSCS6 Comps free air

Wanting to add more midbass (only midbass, 75hz to 250hz)

2 ohm mono block >> (2) Swiss Audio SAK650 (autobahn sister company //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif beefy looking comp set, drivers are kevlar cone, rms is 150rms, retail is $260, $20 at a local pawn //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif)

? ohm ????? block >> (1) 8" sub

double 6.5 cone area = 40.82 (issue... how well do these play midbass)

single 8 cone area = 25.12

sealed box for 6.5 = .5 cu

sealed box for 8 = ?

ported box for 6.5 = 1 - 1.3 cu / tuning hz ? / diameter of round port?

ported box for 8 = ? cu / tuning hz ? / diameter of round port?

thanks for suggestions

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[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

If you want more mid bass I'd start with sealing off your doors

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Unlike subbass, your ears can detect where midbass sounds originate from. For this reason, midbass should be run in stereo, not mono. So a single 8 for midbass is a fundamentally poor idea if fidelity is your goal.

I agree that if you haven't done so already, sealing up your doors will help maximize the midbass your current speakers will produce. I would definitely do this before I even considered adding more speakers to improve the midbass range.

 

[Rsx_03 10+ year member]

ok sealed off doors means sealed boxes for my existing sscs6 ?

or sealed off doors means sound deadening? (already used RAAMAT a while, ago)

i also put 4" kenwoods powered off the HU with a crossover in the center console (facing horizontally) .. as i expected, didnt do much lol

 

[Davecubs14 10+ year member]

Could you post some pics of your door? Part with the deadener on it.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

ok sealed off doors means sealed boxes for my existing sscs6 ?or sealed off doors means sound deadening? (already used RAAMAT a while, ago)

i also put 4" kenwoods powered off the HU with a crossover in the center console (facing horizontally) .. as i expected, didnt do much lol

Sealing the doors means covering all the holes so the door panel acts as a baffle to isolate the front and rear waves from each other. Your deadening job may be sufficient, if it was done thoroughly enough to cover all holes.

I dont recommend speakers in a center console, as they screw up imaging quite a bit. Think about it, you now have speakers on both sides of your body that are suppose to be reproducing the left channel material. And no, 4" speakers wont add much midbass to a system.

 

[Rsx_03 10+ year member]

dont have pics but yes, thoroughly deaden doors, aluminum flashing over large holes, then sound raamat on top of it for more support, covered all small holes with raamat

over everything put a big sheet of foam.

maybe i should get a bigger front amp,

i currently have 75rms to each sscs6 and have a highpass filter of 120hz, should i lower it down to 60hz?

ppi 300.2 >> L R >> each sscs6

head unit >> L R >> 4" drivers (ill take out the 4")

 

[infamous_e46 5,000+ posts]

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speaker-classifieds/516625-front-stage-sale-sql.html

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[Rsx_03 10+ year member]

so disconnected the 4" speakers (makes no difference, probably just a waste of 15 rms and some added weight)

turned down the hpf to 80 hz, sounds really nice and got a lot of the midbass i was looking for.

next step either:

sealed door pods (have to cut my doors and make pods)

.25 cu for each 6.5" ?

1/2" mdf with a coat of fiberglass (mainly to water proof it) enough?

or make kick panels outa fiberglass =)

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Usually small sealed enclosures hurt midbass, not improve it. Most car audio mids are designed to run infinite baffle (in car doors). Ported or aperiodic style enclosures can work well, but I generally dont recommend them for a beginner.

Getting strong midbass is one of the more common obstacles for a car audio enthusiast. You are not alone in your quest.

 

[Rsx_03 10+ year member]

ahhh lol .. thanks for the heads up on the midbass quest

so is any sized sealed an improvment of IB? (read lots of mixed reviews, hate an love, .3cu or .4cu)

if i take the ported route, cu ft need? port diameter? , i read around on forums that a .6cu ported is good but once i try to calculate past 50hz i get negative numbers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/pissed.gif.9f665f96bc89e98e708dabd4580bb591.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

ahhh lol .. thanks for the heads up on the midbass quest
so is any sized sealed an improvment of IB? (read lots of mixed reviews, hate an love, .3cu or .4cu)

if i take the ported route, cu ft need? port diameter? , i read around on forums that a .6cu ported is good but once i try to calculate past 50hz i get negative numbers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/pissed.gif.9f665f96bc89e98e708dabd4580bb591.gif

No, usually IB works out better than sealed for car audio mids. Again, most car audio mids are mounted in doors, which are not truly infinite baffle, but approach it close enough that they pretty much perform as they would in a true IB situation. So once you take those mids and place them in smaller, sealed enclosures, excursion drops, which mostly hurts low frequency response.

Aperiodic membrance can be made to emulate either a (relatively) large sealed box, or even IB, so they tend to work well. But they are complex for the average beginner to tackle.

Ported midbass is something I dont have much experience with (beyond listening to them), but with the correct specs for your speakers, and a good calculation program, you can usually get a response that is 'peaky' in the midbass region, but with a wide enough passband that it will work well (because dedicated midbass drivers usually only play a relatively narrow passband anyway). If you port a midrange driver to exaggerate midbass, usually the top end rolls off and flattens out to still give good midrange (not just all midbass), but getting the appropriate magnitude of midbass exaggeration becomes the critical factor. A good proccessor can help with that however.

The difficulty you are having getting a good way to accurately plot the midbass response curve is exactly the difficulty I was talking about earlier when I said that ported midbass setups tend to be a bit tricky for beginners.

Ive had a couple beers already today and feel I might be getting a bit beyond what I should be discussing in my present condition, so I'll shut up now. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif Maybe keep_hope_alive will pop in and give some insight into the topic as well. He is much more well versed on this topic than I am anyway.

 

[Rsx_03 10+ year member]

sweet thanks, took all that in, will do some more research, so far i know that aperiodic looks like a mess to start off with. ported i see people using little 6.5" speakers as subs in all sort of crazy over sized boxes to prove some type of point. sscs6 dont get low enough to play 60hz nicely, so i have 2 sets of them and do not want to hack up my doors to fit 8" midbass and get a separate amp to power them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/pissed.gif.9f665f96bc89e98e708dabd4580bb591.gif obsession is not a good thing lol

currently im looking at

(4) 4 ohm sscs6 into a 2ch ppi 300.2 (75x 4 @ 2ohms - probably upgrading later to a 150x4 rms amp)

looking like ill be doing IB for now

2x in front doors

2x kicks

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

tons midbass can be achieved with proper 6.5's. you did your doors justice is sounds like.

you don't want dual midbass since they will result in multiple arrival times. if your pair of 6.5's can't play down to 63Hz, then more of them won't either. different locations and different enclosures will also sound different.

enclosure volume ties to efficiency. smaller volumes require a lot more power to get midbass output. this requires a lot more power handling since the small cavity will result in more heating, which then introduces power compression and other thermal issues.

i've done AP vented kicks for midbass. i've done sealed pods for midbass. i have sealed doors for midbass and i have more than ever. i run a 63Hz HPF, lower is better if you want bass to exist in the sound stage (i can place my bass above my dash - like i had a sub in the center of the dash).

i am currently looking for better 6.5 midbass drivers. one very good option i've heard a lot of good feedback on are these:

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_256&products_id=846

cheapest option for great midbass - good sensitivity and frequency response

another option for a bit more

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_256&products_id=8234

and of course there are the Image Dynamics CX62 or CX64 at woofersetc.

these three options are my current considerations, i'll go with one of the three. with more money i'd go with Hertz ML165 or HAT Legatia L6 or UltraSubs SS-6. given the price of the first option, i may start with them since i'm not out much if they don't perform. i've used the ID CX62 before and liked them, but they were too deep. so i'll need to make pods to gain more depth, but i'll always use the door for a cavity.

make 63Hz your goal for a HPF for killer front stage midbass. i recommend just buying a better pair of midbass drivers. if you have anything in the kicks it should be a midrange for a 3-way front.

 

[Noc Thunder]

Personally, I wouldn't waste your time with sealed enclosures with your doors. If you really want enclosures in your doors instead of IB, then go ported. However, ported enclosures are difficult to make and you really need to know the proper amount of airspace and the right tuning frequency. I'm doing that myself in the future with one 10" midbass in each door. It will be 0.5 cubic feet tuned to 60 Hz but it is being done by a damn good shop. Don't even try to do it yourself unless you really know what your doing because it is very difficult to pull off.