What is?

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Ban all sodas and fast food restaurants!!!

“About 659,000 people in the United States die from heart disease each year—that’s 1 in every 4 deaths.”

Heart Disease Facts | cdc.gov

Learn facts about how race, ethnicity, age, and other risk factors can contribute to heart disease risk.

www.cdc.gov

Heart disease from a poor diet is communicable?
Argue the issue, not red herrings or strawmen.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

 

[SlugButter]

How many have been hospitalized?

Probably none. I’m not saying I don’t believe it, but can you post the science they are using to prove that the vaccine makes people less sick? How do they know how sick someone was going to get? Do you understand why that’s a logical question? Is it a study of people with co-morbidity who are vaccinated as opposed to those who aren’t vaccinated? How many people with type 2 diabetes between 50-60 years old died from covid and were not vaccinated as opposed to the same number of people with type 2 diabetes between 50-60 years old who were vaccinated. Are these the types of studies they do to know the future of how sick someone was going to get? Maybe you can find it on the CDC website…….

 

[SlugButter]

No it isn’t. The whole discussion occurred long ago and was proved fake news.
Unless you think all coroners, pathologists, and anyone else who can legally fill out a death certificate has suddenly “gone to the dark side” and is falsifying the info?
That falls under conspiracy fantasy.

That’s not what im saying. Maybe you don’t understand how numbers work and how they can be used. I really would like to play cards with you for cash some day.

 

[SlugButter]

And it’s not dishonest funding either. It’s just how things are counted. If a person dies from heart disease who had Covid, as a hospital you count it as a covid case. It doesn’t matter if he actually died from the heart disease or covid, the hospital paid money and treated a person for covid, therefor they need to be funded for that. I would count it as a covid case regardless of actual cause of death if I were funded for treating covid that way. The facility used resources for covid, and that’s how it’s paid back. That’s how a hospital budget works when it’s subsidized by government for public health. Those numbers are not a vaccine efficacy study and can’t be used as such.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

Choosing death over current science? The survival rate is very very high and it’s shown like over 95% of deaths are contributed to other comorbidities. I don’t see you boycotting McDonald’s or all the processed food that gets peddled.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

And it’s not dishonest funding either. It’s just how things are counted. If a person dies from heart disease who had Covid, as a hospital you count it as a covid case. It doesn’t matter if he actually died from the heart disease or covid, the hospital paid money and treated a person for covid, therefor they need to be funded for that. I would count it as a covid case regardless of actual cause of death if I were funded for treating covid that way. The facility used resources for covid, and that’s how it’s paid back. That’s how a hospital budget works when it’s subsidized by government for public health. Those numbers are not a vaccine efficacy study and can’t be used as such.

Yes. It would be falsification NOT to count it as Covid. It also gets reported for anything else that was treated. And billed according to the formulary for anything else that’s treated.

Where people seem to get confused is in thinking when someone with Covid gets eviscerated in a high speed accident, the COD is listed as “COVID”, simply because a clueless senator made the claim and it went viral on social media as a truth.

I had a relative die due to COVID, but his COD is myocardial infarction. The Covid pushed his O2 level so low, it caused heart failure. Without Covid, his heart would not have failed. Covid caused the MI that caused death.
Have Covid, get taken out by non-related aneurism, Covid is not on the DC.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Probably none. I’m not saying I don’t believe it, but can you post the science they are using to prove that the vaccine makes people less sick? How do they know how sick someone was going to get? Do you understand why that’s a logical question? Is it a study of people with co-morbidity who are vaccinated as opposed to those who aren’t vaccinated? How many people with type 2 diabetes between 50-60 years old died from covid and were not vaccinated as opposed to the same number of people with type 2 diabetes between 50-60 years old who were vaccinated. Are these the types of studies they do to know the future of how sick someone was going to get? Maybe you can find it on the CDC website…….

It’s based on the numbers, the same way they verify the efficacy of anything else.
If 90-99% of the people who get hospitalized due to Covid are unvaccinated, it’s pretty much a statistical impossibility that there is no connection when the other demographics (age, race, ***, geographic location) are so varied.

I’ve offered the analogy before, but think of seatbelts: They make them mandatory, and over time deaths by auto accidents decline. Without any other major changes to vehicles that would reduce deaths, they can attribute the decline to seatbelts.

In the beginning of the pandemic, ALL people hospitalized due to Covid were unvaxed. We are now at 85% vaccination for all adults in the US, but nearly all the hospitalizations are still unvaxed people. That is so far beyond coincidence, it shouldn’t even be a consideration or question of why.

 

[SlugButter]

It’s based on the numbers, the same way they verify the efficacy of anything else.
If 90-99% of the people who get hospitalized due to Covid are unvaccinated, it’s pretty much a statistical impossibility that there is no connection when the other demographics (age, race, ***, geographic location) are so varied.

I’ve offered the analogy before, but think of seatbelts: They make them mandatory, and over time deaths by auto accidents decline. Without any other major changes to vehicles that would reduce deaths, they can attribute the decline to seatbelts.

In the beginning of the pandemic, ALL people hospitalized due to Covid were unvaxed. We are now at 85% vaccination for all adults in the US, but nearly all the hospitalizations are still unvaxed people. That is so far beyond coincidence, it shouldn’t even be a consideration or question of why.

That’s not an answer to my question at all. You don’t know the numbers I ask for. That’s all you had to say instead of this long winded BS. Your analogies are no better than Ones feelings to make decisions and I’ve heard your seat belt analogy many times. It still doesn’t make it an answer to my question. I already knew you couldn’t find the numbers I ask for and that I’d get some rambling BS instead.

 

[SlugButter]

It’s based on the numbers, the same way they verify the efficacy of anything else.
If 90-99% of the people who get hospitalized due to Covid are unvaccinated, it’s pretty much a statistical impossibility that there is no connection when the other demographics (age, race, ***, geographic location) are so varied.

I’ve offered the analogy before, but think of seatbelts: They make them mandatory, and over time deaths by auto accidents decline. Without any other major changes to vehicles that would reduce deaths, they can attribute the decline to seatbelts.

In the beginning of the pandemic, ALL people hospitalized due to Covid were unvaxed. We are now at 85% vaccination for all adults in the US, but nearly all the hospitalizations are still unvaxed people. That is so far beyond coincidence, it shouldn’t even be a consideration or question of why.

Let me know when you have some numbers that actually tell a story, such as the example I laid out earlier. You’re just regurgitating numbers based on a political talking point. Let’s get specific Rob, since you are such an evidence based guy. Where are these scientific studies and trial groups? Legitimate science has such things, not just a hospitalization rate.

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

Id damn near pay MOT $5 to lock this thread. Y'all are annoying af!

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

That’s not an answer to my question at all. You don’t know the numbers I ask for. That’s all you had to say instead of this long winded BS. Your analogies are no better than Ones feelings to make decisions and I’ve heard your seat belt analogy many times. It still doesn’t make it an answer to my question. I already knew you couldn’t find the numbers I ask for and that I’d get some rambling BS instead.

You asked how they prove the vaccine is making people less sick. The statistics surrounding the situation are how they do it.
The numbers gathered by Pew,KFF, CDC, and many others are not “political talking points” any more than quoting the DJIA figures are “political taking points”. They’re real-world statistical info.

Think of polio. The reduction in people getting it is how they prove the vaccine is working.
Think of seatbelts. The reduction in deaths is how they prove it.
Think of advertising. Sales go is when a business advertises.

“Blue sky” benefits can never be proved totally, but it boils down to no other common factors can be “blamed”. The common factor amongst people being hospitalized due to Covid is that 90-99% of them are unvaccinated. The common factor among that famous legionnaires outbreak was all the people attending the convention.

Unless there is some unknown commonality across the country that ties all these Covid patients together in some way, the vaccine (or a lack thereof) is the only known one.

And if you’re going to argue numbers but then try to say numbers are “fake news”, why bother? No different than buck thinking “per capita” represents different percentages than “overall”.

 

[SlugButter]

You asked how they prove the vaccine is making people less sick. The statistics surrounding the situation are how they do it.
The numbers gathered by Pew,KFF, CDC, and many others are not “political talking points” any more than quoting the DJIA figures are “political taking points”. They’re real-world statistical info.

Think of polio. The reduction in people getting it is how they prove the vaccine is working.
Think of seatbelts. The reduction in deaths is how they prove it.
Think of advertising. Sales go is when a business advertises.

“Blue sky” benefits can never be proved totally, but it boils down to no other common factors can be “blamed”. The common factor amongst people being hospitalized due to Covid is that 90-99% of them are unvaccinated. The common factor among that famous legionnaires outbreak was all the people attending the convention.

Unless there is some unknown commonality across the country that ties all these Covid patients together in some way, the vaccine is the only known one.

And if you’re going to argue numbers but then try to say numbers are “fake news”, why bother? No different than buck thinking “per capita” represents different percentages than “overall”.

So you didn't even look for any actual efficacy studies done in the last 2 years. 2 years, 100s of thousands of hospitalizations and a ton of deaths but no details. Just BS numbers that I've already seen. No breakdown of comorbidities, no breakdown by age, nothing. Again, lots of pretty words with 0 substance. Your evidence gathering is useless.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

So you didn't even look for any actual efficacy studies done in the last 2 years. 2 years, 100s of thousands of hospitalizations and a ton of deaths but no details. Just BS numbers that I've already seen. No breakdown of comorbidities, no breakdown by age, nothing. Again, lots of pretty words with 0 substance. Your evidence gathering is useless.

When you're talking PREVENTION, there is no efficacy study. If someone gets in a motorcycle accident with a helmet on, do you think they then smash the person's head to see if they would have died without a helmet on?

You said it yourself that they don't know how sick a person WOULD have gotten without the vaccine, but the FACT is that as the percentage of people vaccinated RISES, the percentage of those being hospitalized who are unvaccinated has stayed almost the same. If the vaccine had no efficacy in reducing the severity of the symptoms, then the percentages would roughly match the population: You would see about 85% of people being hospitalized and being fully vaccinated.
That's how statistics work.

So, looking at the numbers: What is your theory of why the vast majority of adult hospitalizations remain unvaccinated people, while a solid majority of adult people (85%) are vaccinated? Why aren't the vaccinated people being hospitalized?
What is the common thread aside from vaccination that crosses ethnic, ***, financial, political, geographic, etc. boundaries for all of these people?

Again, it's pretty much impossible for it to be coincidence. There must be a cause, and you must know that cause if you know it's not the vaccination. What is it?

Efficacy studies info: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/effectiveness-research/protocols.html

Real-World COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness in Healthcare Workers | CDC

A study funded and led by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will evaluate how well COVID-19 vaccines prevent laboratory-confirmed, symptomatic COVID-19 in healthcare workers in the “real world,” outside of a clinical trial.

www.cdc.gov

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

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Efficacy study on 43,548 participants: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
CONCLUSIONS -A two-dose regimen of BNT162b2 conferred 95% protection against Covid-19 in persons 16 years of age or older.

Vaccine efficacy, effectiveness and protection

www.who.int

All COVID-19 vaccines approved by WHO for emergency use listing have been through randomized clinical trials to test their quality, safety and efficacy. To be approved, vaccines are required to have a high efficacy rate of 50% or above.

Studies and Statistics, not politics or political talking points.