Angled Speaker Rings

[Dozyproductions]

I tried searching for the answer but coming up a little short so I hope I'm not asking something that's been repeated/talked about a million times. If so, if you have a link I'd appreciate it.

So, hello. I got a stock Lancer and the factory RF system is abysmal and needs to be replaced. I'm looking to replace the stock components with Mac Audio BLK 2.16 or Sinuslive sl16 + neo 30. Both have a shallow enough mounting depths, which is key to keeping the stock look and the lady friend happy.

The question is should/could I stack a couple of baffles on to each other, and after careful measuring, cut the baffles at an angle in order for the woofers to be pointing, as close as possible, up and towards our heads? Will it do anything? With so many surfaces to bounce off of will door speakers, from opposite ends, really be cancelling each other out?

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[SlugButter]

The tweeter is more important for imaging than the midbass speaker, so if you have coaxials, direction of the speakers is really important, since the tweeter is mounted with the woofer. With a component set, the woofers becomes less important in terms of direction because the tweeter is now mounted separately from the woofer, and can be adjusted individually. I would still angle my midbass speakers on a component set personally, because it does make some difference with the midbass speakers, but tweeter imaging makes a huge difference. This is a big advantage to running a component set instead of a coaxial.

 

[Dozyproductions]

The tweeter is more important for imaging than the midbass speaker, so if you have coaxials, direction of the speakers is really important, since the tweeter is mounted with the woofer. With a component set, the woofers becomes less important in terms of direction because the tweeter is now mounted separately from the woofer, and can be adjusted individually. I would still angle my midbass speakers on a component set personally, because it does make some difference with the midbass speakers, but tweeter imaging makes a huge difference. This is a big advantage to running a component set instead of a coaxial.

Thank you. I realize that the tweeter will be the most important with imaging but if the woofer is xovered at 4khz, won't it still be enough of a factor? Either way, this install wont be more than making baffles and deadening the doors.

 

[SlugButter]

Thank you. I realize that the tweeter will be the most important with imaging but if the woofer is xovered at 4khz, won't it still be enough of a factor? Either way, this install wont be more than making baffles and deadening the doors.

Yeah, it does make a difference. Legs block midbass, which is probably the main reason to image your midbass. If you cut your legs off and date a woman with no legs, problem solved. Lol.

 

[Dozyproductions]

Yeah, it does make a difference. Legs block midbass, which is probably the main reason to image your midbass. If you cut your legs off and date a woman with no legs, problem solved. Lol.

Think balance between not having the dedication or not having the tools to do it

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Thank you. I realize that the tweeter will be the most important with imaging but if the woofer is xovered at 4khz, won't it still be enough of a factor? Either way, this install wont be more than making baffles and deadening the doors.

See if you can find published specs or test results from those mids. Many "car audio" branded drivers are designed around the idea that you will be listening to them "off-axis" (not aimed directly at you, but mounted as they normally are in car doors). Same with tweeters really.

If they are designed to play best off-axis you should plan to listen off-axis, if you're set on a little DIY job, on-axis will provide better results but just be sure you select drivers that are designed to be listened to on-axis.

I would cut multiple baffles out of MDF and shape with a belt sander or one of those sanding wheels on an angle grinder. MDF shapes super quickly with some aggressive sanding then can be touched up as needed with bondo then painted/sealed.

 

[Dozyproductions]

See if you can find published specs or test results from those mids. Many "car audio" branded drivers are designed around the idea that you will be listening to them "off-axis" (not aimed directly at you, but mounted as they normally are in car doors). Same with tweeters really.

If they are designed to play best off-axis you should plan to listen off-axis, if you're set on a little DIY job, on-axis will provide better results but just be sure you select drivers that are designed to be listened to on-axis.

I would cut multiple baffles out of MDF and shape with a belt sander or one of those sanding wheels on an angle grinder. MDF shapes super quickly with some aggressive sanding then can be touched up as needed with bondo then painted/sealed.

Have been in contact with "Klaus" and he's very vague with his answers. He's only provided me with basic specs (included bellow for just one speaker set).You have a good point and will ask them that question. At the same time, angling them can only go so far so there will have to be some off axis response.

But what about cancellation when the speakers are facing each other amidst all the interior reflections. That was at least a concern I was reading about.

Thank you

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

But what about cancellation when the speakers are facing each other amidst all the interior reflections.

Absolutely no way to predict this in a vehicle, and really this is going to be a roll of the dice whatever you do then trail and error if you're determined to "fix" it. I've seen one guy at a SQ meetup who kept a couple sweatshirts sitting on the hump between foot wells in front to tame a bad node. Another guy solved some issues by just running one tweeter out of phase. Hope you have spare time and like tweaking! Vehicle is the absolute least friendly environment to try to build realistic soundstage.

Anyway, do try to find some drivers with published response curves on and off axis. The difference can be dramatic and often speakers that are engineered to perform well 45 degrees off axis will sound harsh or "beamy" listened to straight on. If you are buying local and can walk around the room in front of a demo board you might be able to get a good idea of the difference as you angle your listening position away from the line of fire.

 

[Dozyproductions]

Absolutely no way to predict this in a vehicle, and really this is going to be a roll of the dice whatever you do then trail and error if you're determined to "fix" it. I've seen one guy at a SQ meetup who kept a couple sweatshirts sitting on the hump between foot wells in front to tame a bad node. Another guy solved some issues by just running one tweeter out of phase. Hope you have spare time and like tweaking! Vehicle is the absolute least friendly environment to try to build realistic soundstage.

Anyway, do try to find some drivers with published response curves on and off axis. The difference can be dramatic and often speakers that are engineered to perform well 45 degrees off axis will sound harsh or "beamy" listened to straight on. If you are buying local and can walk around the room in front of a demo board you might be able to get a good idea of the difference as you angle your listening position away from the line of fire.

Thank you for the advice.

I live in a country where listening to what you want to buy before you buy it is rare and everything is damn expensive. Since I already know what Focals, Hertz and similar sound like and between the limits in choices and high prices it really goes down to deciding between Pioneer TS-A1600c's, Mac Audios BLKs or SinusLives by flipping a coin without any demo.

From the prior suggestion I've emailed all of these manufactures and hoping for a proper response about the response.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

See if you can find published specs or test results from those mids. Many "car audio" branded drivers are designed around the idea that you will be listening to them "off-axis" (not aimed directly at you, but mounted as they normally are in car doors). Same with tweeters really.

If they are designed to play best off-axis you should plan to listen off-axis, if you're set on a little DIY job, on-axis will provide better results but just be sure you select drivers that are designed to be listened to on-axis.

I would cut multiple baffles out of MDF and shape with a belt sander or one of those sanding wheels on an angle grinder. MDF shapes super quickly with some aggressive sanding then can be touched up as needed with bondo then painted/sealed.

I did not know that. Thank you very much for that bit of info there.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I did not know that. Thank you very much for that bit of info there.

If you dig around you can probably find some fascinating measured response graphs of various speakers and you will see for yourself. It's actually really impressive how some of the companies who employ real engineers full time can create drivers that will play flat/linear off-axis.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

If you dig around you can probably find some fascinating measured response graphs of various speakers and you will see for yourself. It's actually really impressive how some of the companies who employ real engineers full time can create drivers that will play flat/linear off-axis.

That really interests me. Do you have anything that you've seen that stands out? As far as how they engineer that in? It seems to me it would largely be around cone angular design, for "dispersion", if you will.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

That really interests me. Do you have anything that you've seen that stands out? As far as how they engineer that in? It seems to me it would largely be around cone angular design, for "dispersion", if you will.

The best example of this I have firsthand knowledge of is the old MB quart titanium tweeters from the late 90s-early 2k. People always complain that they are super harsh and very bright. But back when those speakers were produced most people were mounting tweeters off axis aimed at each other, not making custom pods and aiming them at the drivers seat.

I'm running a set of the QM 218.61 Q comps with said tweeter. They are in the sail panel of my jetta aimed right across the car and they sound fantastic. I learned this when I had these speakers installed in my last car.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The best example of this I have firsthand knowledge of is the old MB quart titanium tweeters from the late 90s-early 2k. People always complain that they are super harsh and very bright. But back when those speakers were produced most people were mounting tweeters off axis aimed at each other, not making custom pods and aiming them at the drivers seat.

I'm running a set of the QM 218.61 Q comps with said tweeter. They are in the sail panel of my jetta aimed right across the car and they sound fantastic. I learned this when I had these speakers installed in my last car.

Matt

I need some of those in my horribly angled BMW speakers.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I need some of those in my horribly angled BMW speakers.

Well, I may be switching to a set of QSD comps if I can find a set. I'll shoot you a text if I do, lol. I still need to clear my trunk out and measure ****.