Official Trump Thread - Winners only

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I think the majority of looters who aren't displaying desperation for hunger and aren't trying to damage the movement are trying to make a point. Look at MLK for example. Most history classes would cite him as the bringer of the civil rights act. I had assumed going through junior high/high school at least that they were making headway with their protests and that when their leader was murdered everyone else was suddenly aware of the problem. What actually happened was completely different, they stopped protesting for change and started rioting for change, and it worked. Unfortunately in the US nobody will take you seriously until it affects them. Affecting their route to work isn't enough, you need to affect them in the wallet. I guess they're understanding the illogic of saying, "lets boycott this company or that company" when their income bracket controls single digit percentages of the wealth in the country.

Essentially what it comes down to is what's helpful? You can say they're all criminals who should go to jail, but the alternative is the status quo that's decimate their community. If you look to the civil rights era what they did was perfectly in line with achieving change, and looking back now I don't think MLK ever would have made a damn bit of difference in Washington if there were no riots. This is the sad reality of the US.

Back to AOC, what's helpful? I think her response is more helpful than silence. When you allow people to be demonized for being desperate you inherently discredit their desperation. Desperation comes from many directions though and I think that's your fundamental misunderstanding. You can be desperate for food, obviously. You can also be desperate from oppression. Look to the experiences of the west side of Berlin during the cold war or africans during apartheid, you'll quickly understand that food and water isn't everything.
You are deflecting. These looters aren't doing it for anything noble. They are doing it because they know they can get away with it. No cops = Free for all. They are trash and this is the reason they are the bottom of society. Because they have the mentality that "I don't have to do anything, I don't answer to anyone, If I want it, I will take it" Society doesn't work that way even if they really, really want it to. They are scumbag opportunist, drains on society period.
 
You are deflecting. These looters aren't doing it for anything noble. They are doing it because they know they can get away with it. No cops = Free for all. They are trash and this is the reason they are the bottom of society. Because they have the mentality that "I don't have to do anything, I don't answer to anyone, If I want it, I will take it" Society doesn't work that way even if they really, really want it to. They are scumbag opportunist, drains on society period.
I don't think desperation is noble, the protesting they were doing before was (and the vast majority still are), but sometimes it gets worse and that's what it becomes. I don't know if it's fair to say go back and be silent or continue dedicating a sizable part of your life to not making a difference. It's fair to say that for a while, but at this point we both know change isn't coming. Trump has no interest and the senate is republican with Mcconnell squashing any bills that aren't explicitly supported by the RNC lineup of donors. Given the obstacles perhaps it is time to move on to costing America money, I'm not in their situation but I can certainly see the corner they're backed into.

The no cops argument is a strawman, defunding the police means funding them based on their required niche role rather than every role we've asked them to take up since their inception. The police deal with calls all day long, depending on the area it's something like 7 to 14% require expectation of force, but the same cops with guns and limited training show up to the other 93-86%. It's common sense that pulling those calls away to social workers or people trained for various situations that are more common than felony responses (who are proven to be better at those roles) will require money that we're already paying for less qualified people to do it. Wouldn't you rather have a specialized force earning the same amount of money? Costs the same amount but less people die because of mental breakdowns or because the cop's having a bad day and can't bring themselves to deescalate. We've collectively decided as a society that cops aren't responsible for deescalating any situations, so the logical response is now to only use them when absolutely required and keep them out of mental illness situations. The arguments against it are weak from what I've heard but I'd love to hear yours.

I still think they're better people than basically every billionaire, but we all know who the media prefers. The only looters who are worse are the ones who do it to discredit the movement. Ironically when you call them drains on society that could better describe billionaires. Give them the change they need and it will go away, but who's fault is that?
 
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I don't think desperation is noble, the protesting they were doing before was (and the vast majority still are), but sometimes it gets worse and that's what it becomes. I don't know if it's fair to say go back and be silent or continue dedicating a sizable part of your life to not making a difference. It's fair to say that for a while, but at this point we both know change isn't coming. Trump has no interest and the senate is republican with Mcconnell squashing any bills that aren't explicitly supported by the RNC lineup of donors. Given the obstacles perhaps it is time to move on to costing America money, I'm not in their situation but I can certainly see the corner they're backed into.

The no cops argument is a strawman, defunding the police means funding them based on their required niche role rather than every role we've asked them to take up since their inception. The police deal with calls all day long, depending on the area it's something like 7 to 14% require no expectation of force, but the same cops with guns and limited training show up to the other 93-86%. It's common sense that pulling those calls away to social workers or people trained for various situations that are more common than felony responses (who are proven to be better at those roles) will require money that we're already paying for less qualified people to do it. Wouldn't you rather have a specialized force earning the same amount of money? Costs the same amount but less people die because of mental breakdowns or because the cop's having a bad day and can't bring themselves to deescalate. We've collectively decided as a society that cops aren't responsible for deescalating any situations, so the logical response is now to only use them when absolutely required and keep them out of mental illness situations. The arguments against it are weak from what I've heard but I'd love to hear yours.

I still think they're better people than basically every billionaire, but we all know who the media prefers. The only looters who are worse are the ones who do it to discredit the movement. Ironically when you call them drains on society that could better describe billionaires. Give them the change they need and it will go away, but who's fault is that?
Looters and protestors are NOT the same people.

The looters are criminals period and in the absence of law enforcement, they will and are committing more crimes because who cares, nobody is going to arrest them.

The police have been ORDERED not to respond in these cities with the highest crime.

Sending "Social Workers" to calls that police would have been called to will get Social Workers ***** kicked royally. They will get even less respect than armed law enforcement. Bad idea.

Give them, give them, give them. Are you ******* kidding me??? I work for what I have, their lazy ***** can work too. I am not "giving" them shit! They are entitled to free shit about as much as I am... oh that's right, I am not. I have to work or go hungry, not have a roof over my head. These drains expect the government to GIVE THEM MONEY, FOOD, SHELTER... how ******* stupid is this shit!?!?!? Get a ******* job you lazy bums!! Your life is what YOU make it, if their lives s uck, they s uck. I don't pity them and I certainly don't think they are owed anything. Want a better life? WORK FOR IT.
 
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D2CA25AB-9232-4A77-A9D4-0B5CC3A58766.jpeg

I thought this was a thread about cars?
 
Looters and protestors are NOT the same people.
It seems that's generally true. The cross between them is probably about as large as the percentage of protestors who are also violent, but that hasn't stopped the laser focus on that minority of the group.

Sending "Social Workers" to calls that police would have been called to will get Social Workers ***** kicked royally. They will get even less respect than armed law enforcement. Bad idea.
This is proven to result in less incidents. Would you like a study showing this in a city that moved from pure police to police working along with social workers and non-emergency responders? There's also plenty of studies about the fire department's role in helping people who have overdosed and how successful it's been. Unsurprisingly bringing a gun to a person's manic episode isn't a very good idea for your safety or theirs.

Not trying to pull a ThxOne on you by responding to only a snippet, but the rest was just sort of an opinion that didn't need a response. I know how you feel about that stuff, you're truly an embodiment of rugged individualism, but it might do you some good to see how that sentiment changes for the people you vote for over the spectrum of income levels. I'm hyperaware of how people like AOC stick to their promises, thus far she's done an almost perfect job.
 
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It seems that's generally true. The cross between them is probably about as large as the percentage of protestors who are also violent, but that hasn't stopped the laser focus on that minority of the group.


This is proven to result in less incidents. Would you like a study showing this in a city that moved from pure police to police working along with social workers and non-emergency responders? There's also plenty of studies about the fire department's role in helping people who have overdosed and how successful it's been. Unsurprisingly bringing a gun to a person's manic episode isn't a very good idea for your safety or theirs.

Not trying to pull a ThxOne on you by responding to only a snippet, but the rest was just sort of an opinion that didn't need a response. I know how you feel about that stuff, you're truly an embodiment of rugged individualism, but it might do you some good to see how that sentiment changes for the people you vote for over the spectrum of income levels. I'm hyperaware of how people like AOC stick to their promises, thus far she's done an almost perfect job.
I am open to seeing a study. Please send me a link.

The calls I am referencing are those for concerns about child abuse or spouse abuse or some situation where it involves ones personal property. These, I promise you, will cause problems for non LEO's. Have a social worker show up to a violent parents residence and level threats about removing their abused child... POW! BING# BOOM! My own father was a violent prick who whooped our ***** like we owed him money and he had NO PROBLEM telling social workers to leave before he broke their necks... he would have too, he didn't give a damn. Nobody was gonna tell him how to raise his kids or tell him what to do.

I am not saying we shouldn't be open to options but these options need to have more thought behind them. It should be obvious by now, the world is not wine and roses... it pretty damn violent.
 
I am open to seeing a study. Please send me a link.

The calls I am referencing are those for concerns about child abuse or spouse abuse or some situation where it involves ones personal property. These, I promise you, will cause problems for non LEO's. Have a social worker show up to a violent parents residence and level threats about removing their abused child... POW! BING# BOOM! My own father was a violent prick who whooped our ***** like we owed him money and he had NO PROBLEM telling social workers to leave before he broke their necks... he would have too, he didn't give a damn. Nobody was gonna tell him how to raise his kids or tell him what to do.

I am not saying we shouldn't be open to options but these options need to have more thought behind them. It should be obvious by now, the world is not wine and roses... it pretty damn violent.
https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/storage/documents/overlooked-in-the-undercounted.pdf page 11 under "co-responder teams for psychiatric emergency response" but that entire document is pretty enlightening to the problems resulting in these unarmed shootings.

That's a pretty good summation article of what I'm talking about. They also reference other things such as the low amount of actual violence that police respond to, about 1% of 911 calls in major cities.

Another article, this one an opinion piece by a cop advocating for social workers to be included in policing, so it's not even really very controversial for police precincts, more just controversial for their officers who want overtime hours which make up a large portion of their pay and contribute to stress on the job. Also of note when they are stressed the stress-intervention methods built into most departments to avoid rogue officers isn't utilized because of the stigma of needing help to deal with your emotions within a police force.

They specifically mention violence as a reason for police, however like I said, that's only 1% of calls. There have been a lot of cities who have already moved to great social worker involvement that we can gleam data from in order to make the policies intelligently, but unfortunately there's a huge pushback because the "defund the police" puts a lot of people in hardcore defense mode. In the situation that you mentioned with your father that would be a justification for officers being present as well just as backup, but the primary thrust of the initial contact should be one of attempting to help, not intimidation. People having breakdowns are pretty sensitive to intimidation, so it may not take much. This is why social workers are better trained for this and don't have weapons.

I've heard the opinions of a few social workers who do these types of calls and the consensus is that sometimes they do get beat up, occassionally they'll have their hair pulled, they might get punched or slapped or screamed at, but they both survived and the patient was safely transported to a hospital. This almost always happens because people stop taking their medication and then get stressed. With how much that tends to cost these days it's a sad reality that many people who mean well will end up with a gun pointed at them as they're in a manic state and be expected to be the deescalating party of an interaction. Their odds aren't great with a cop but they'll almost certainly be okay with a social worker.
 
https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/storage/documents/overlooked-in-the-undercounted.pdf page 11 under "co-responder teams for psychiatric emergency response" but that entire document is pretty enlightening to the problems resulting in these unarmed shootings.

That's a pretty good summation article of what I'm talking about. They also reference other things such as the low amount of actual violence that police respond to, about 1% of 911 calls in major cities.

Another article, this one an opinion piece by a cop advocating for social workers to be included in policing, so it's not even really very controversial for police precincts, more just controversial for their officers who want overtime hours which make up a large portion of their pay and contribute to stress on the job. Also of note when they are stressed the stress-intervention methods built into most departments to avoid rogue officers isn't utilized because of the stigma of needing help to deal with your emotions within a police force.

They specifically mention violence as a reason for police, however like I said, that's only 1% of calls. There have been a lot of cities who have already moved to great social worker involvement that we can gleam data from in order to make the policies intelligently, but unfortunately there's a huge pushback because the "defund the police" puts a lot of people in hardcore defense mode. In the situation that you mentioned with your father that would be a justification for officers being present as well just as backup, but the primary thrust of the initial contact should be one of attempting to help, not intimidation. People having breakdowns are pretty sensitive to intimidation, so it may not take much. This is why social workers are better trained for this and don't have weapons.

I've heard the opinions of a few social workers who do these types of calls and the consensus is that sometimes they do get beat up, occassionally they'll have their hair pulled, they might get punched or slapped or screamed at, but they both survived and the patient was safely transported to a hospital. This almost always happens because people stop taking their medication and then get stressed. With how much that tends to cost these days it's a sad reality that many people who mean well will end up with a gun pointed at them as they're in a manic state and be expected to be the deescalating party of an interaction. Their odds aren't great with a cop but they'll almost certainly be okay with a social worker.
After I cook dinner for my brother an d myself, I will peruse your links. Thanks for the links.

The situation with my dad in that instance was my younger sister had wet the bed... she was like 6 at the time. It pissed my dad off and he wrapped her up in the piss covered sheet and sent her outside. A neighbor saw my sister crying, wrapped up in a stinky, piss soaked sheet and called child services... when they showed up I thought my dad was going to go to jail. That social worker needed new underwear for sure. My dad was also an abused child by both of his parents. No excuse but a reason I guess. He didn't know how to control his anger. Myself, that shit is in check until it needs to be unchecked.
 
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