Weird Issue with popping system?

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

I know for fact that the RCA path is no where near the power wires for the amp or the light bar all my power cables run down the passenger side of my truck and all audio cables run drive side however I will try and disconnect the RCA and test it for giggles as for a grounding that would require me ripping out most of the inside of my truck I know when we went to ground it though we used a grinder and went to shiny metal before grounding after we had it grounded and solid we then painted over the area with the ground still in place then retested the ground. Reason for most of that work was due to the fact that we laid down sound deadening after that. e.e

Where is the ground located??

 

[Lasherž]

Sounds like a larger Battery is needed under the hood for power. Maybe get the Big 3 done if you havent done so already

I'm certainly not going to say that a larger battery wouldn't change things for the better, but the difference for the voltage spike is going to be minimal for a battery compared to a capacitor. The difference would be the difference in rate that the current battery can charge with its internal resistances compared to the new one. If you go from standard lead acid to AGM you will get a decent bump in the amount of power the battery uses, but I don't think it will be nearly as big of a difference as a capacitor which can charge at hundreds of amps in very short bursts. It would definitely help with the voltage drop like I mentioned earlier, but I don't know if I would need to have my car off while using any of those accessories. Even now I'm paranoid about playing music without the car being on and it drains over the course of like 30 minutes so it wouldn't be an issue for me at least.

What I will say is if you're going to get a battery swap of any sort you may want to see how it responds to that before a cap, but I wouldn't expect much so that's more to address the voltage drop you were talking about earlier than this pop sound.

Most RCAs are well shielded these days and can be ran close bye power wiring.Small system wiring up to 4 ga can usually lay on top or ran with RCAs as both are well shielded these days without much of an issue

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious what RCAs you're using that you can do that to? The ones that came in my first rockford fosgate wiring kit couldn't prevent the hum from the engine for me, but maybe there's better RCAs out there. More recently I've been using the rigid ones which claim to have better shielding but at the same time I got those I also got an active LOC so it kinda nullified any need for super shielded cables with like 7-9v signal input.

 

[Lasherž]

I know for fact that the RCA path is no where near the power wires for the amp or the light bar all my power cables run down the passenger side of my truck and all audio cables run drive side however I will try and disconnect the RCA and test it for giggles as for a grounding that would require me ripping out most of the inside of my truck I know when we went to ground it though we used a grinder and went to shiny metal before grounding after we had it grounded and solid we then painted over the area with the ground still in place then retested the ground. Reason for most of that work was due to the fact that we laid down sound deadening after that. e.e

If you went as far as using a grinder and it was nice and tight then that's good enough for me, just figured I'd mention it as popping can occur from funky grounds. Most electrical problems are down to grounding issues. RCAs may as well test if they're easy. Any word on being able to test the peak with a max hold multimeter or oscope?

 

[ac19189]

Gonna test it later today can't rattle away at 5am haha. I'm sure my ground is solid it was direct to cab and the cab has a direct ground to engine block. Planning on trying a cap on the lead to the amp as my friend said mostly because when we disconnected the amp from the battery the pop was not auditable that I could tell. Will throw some tests up later today.

 

[Squirrel!]

When buying an car audio cap it's buyer beware, a lot of the farad ratings are just outright false. I would check youtube videos of people checking their values or just buy maxwells or illinois power caps and assemble the proper capacitance myself. Once again you'd want the characteristics of that peak to know exactly what value you're looking for, but 1-2 farads should be plenty for minimizing the intensity of the pop if it doesn't go away entirely.

My capacitor introduced pop.

 

[Maverick38344]

Sounds like a larger Battery is needed under the hood for power. Maybe get the Big 3 done if you havent done so already, and look into getting a 40 amp relay placed on the Remote for the amps and even the Light bar would prob. work.When I run more than 3 amps I use a 40 amp relay for the Remote.What size is your stock Alt? And what size and make of battery?Lead or AGM?

His alternator was just replaced and is either a 110 or 115. As for battery, I didn't look. Given the vehicle, I would say it would be a 600+

 

[ac19189]

His alternator was just replaced and is either a 110 or 115. As for battery, I didn't look. Given the vehicle, I would say it would be a 600+

I believe its closer to 700 or 800 I went overkill on it.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

I'm certainly not going to say that a larger battery wouldn't change things for the better, but the difference for the voltage spike is going to be minimal for a battery compared to a capacitor. The difference would be the difference in rate that the current battery can charge with its internal resistances compared to the new one. If you go from standard lead acid to AGM you will get a decent bump in the amount of power the battery uses, but I don't think it will be nearly as big of a difference as a capacitor which can charge at hundreds of amps in very short bursts. It would definitely help with the voltage drop like I mentioned earlier, but I don't know if I would need to have my car off while using any of those accessories. Even now I'm paranoid about playing music without the car being on and it drains over the course of like 30 minutes so it wouldn't be an issue for me at least.

What I will say is if you're going to get a battery swap of any sort you may want to see how it responds to that before a cap, but I wouldn't expect much so that's more to address the voltage drop you were talking about earlier than this pop sound.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious what RCAs you're using that you can do that to? The ones that came in my first rockford fosgate wiring kit couldn't prevent the hum from the engine for me, but maybe there's better RCAs out there. More recently I've been using the rigid ones which claim to have better shielding but at the same time I got those I also got an active LOC so it kinda nullified any need for super shielded cables with like 7-9v signal input.

Ive always used and use Stinger RCAs. These here alot or if I can match the Zero Noise sets I use. Ive ran then in My 90-240,-93,and 92 Integras next to 2 runs of 4 ga from engine bay all the way to the hatches Zipped Tied together and never had any Issues.In my Truck, CRV, CTS, with 2 ga. up to 2k on subs and 500 on 4chs.Never any issues. I deff dont have them next to my 0.ga wiring. I run the RCAs down the middle after deadening and run the larger wiring on either side or up under the vehicle in wire loom zip tied. I dont Cheap out on Fuse blocks or distro blocks either.ANL under the Hood and Either ANL or Maxi at the amps and Solid Multi-blocks for grounds

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Never had any issues or failure with Stinger Products or Monster.
Xscorpian is Made by Stinger as well

 

[Lasherž]

Ive always used and use Stinger RCAs. These here alot or if I can match the Zero Noise sets I use. Ive ran then in My 90-240,-93,and 92 Integras next to 2 runs of 4 ga from engine bay all the way to the hatches Zipped Tied together and never had any Issues.In my Truck, CRV, CTS, with 2 ga. up to 2k on subs and 500 on 4chs.Never any issues. I deff dont have them next to my 0.ga wiring. I run the RCAs down the middle after deadening and run the larger wiring on either side or up under the vehicle in wire loom zip tied. I dont Cheap out on Fuse blocks or distro blocks either.ANL under the Hood and Either ANL or Maxi at the amps and Solid Multi-blocks for grounds

Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles & More | eBay

Buy & sell electronics, cars, clothes, collectibles & more on eBay, the world's online marketplace. Top brands, low prices & free shipping on many items.

rover.ebay.com

Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles & More | eBay

Buy & sell electronics, cars, clothes, collectibles & more on eBay, the world's online marketplace. Top brands, low prices & free shipping on many items.

rover.ebay.com

Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles & More | eBay

Buy & sell electronics, cars, clothes, collectibles & more on eBay, the world's online marketplace. Top brands, low prices & free shipping on many items.

rover.ebay.com

Never had any issues or failure with Stinger Products or Monster.
Xscorpian is Made by Stinger as well

Thanks, I'll save those in my favorites the next time I need some full length RCAs. I don't like Monster as a brand but Stinger is pretty good stuff from what I've seen. Pretty impressive if you can run it next to a 4 gauge power cable without issues, kinda curious how high the voltage was inside of them though. Was it a regular head unit or one with particuarly high preouts? Like with my LOC you easily get 7v signal output and I'm sure I could run any old rcas next to the power wire, but 1v? Eh I'm doubtful on that one.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Thanks, I'll save those in my favorites the next time I need some full length RCAs. I don't like Monster as a brand but Stinger is pretty good stuff from what I've seen. Pretty impressive if you can run it next to a 4 gauge power cable without issues, kinda curious how high the voltage was inside of them though. Was it a regular head unit or one with particuarly high preouts? Like with my LOC you easily get 7v signal output and I'm sure I could run any old rcas next to the power wire, but 1v? Eh I'm doubtful on that one.

Eclipse CD 3000 HU (Still run this one from time to time Simple use)and a couple 8 v older Hu by Eclispe I had like the 7100. and couple others 5v I sold on here couple years back. May have been on MAF.com. Monster cables are pretty lagit, If sitting in place for quite a while, almost impossible to remove them generally have to pry them off, only thng i didnt like about them, But if you have an Off Road vehicle They arent going to come loose

 

[Lasherž]

Eclipse CD 3000 HU (Still run this one from time to time Simple use)and a couple 8 v older Hu by Eclispe I had like the 7100. and couple others 5v I sold on here couple years back. May have been on MAF.com. Monster cables are pretty lagit, If sitting in place for quite a while, almost impossible to remove them generally have to pry them off, only thng i didnt like about them, But if you have an Off Road vehicle They arent going to come loose

Yeah that must be it, I was using a HU with only 2v preouts. Not to say the cable wasn't part of the equation, but shielding is a lot harder to pull off over a 17ft cable than just having a stronger signal. My beef with monster cables isn't their products actually, it's that they're a patent troll who uses vague patents to go after other cable manufacturers. Some of their threatening cease and desist letters are downright infuriating given that they didn't invent anything, they just patent vague ideas and then some dumbass from the patent office who doesn't know any better approves it for them and they go after companies with newer products than their patent dates.

Blue Jeans Cable Experience with Monster Cable

Monster Cable threatened to sue Blue Jeans Cable over IP property relating to an audio connector. What Monster didn't realize is they woke the monster within Blue Jeans owner. See what went down.

www.audioholics.com

 

[ac19189]

Well kids figured it out. After loads of testing and throwing a bunch of noise filters on everything I could think of it turns out the stupid relay for the light bar was the issue the whole time! I had to put a 1 amp diode on the relay to help with spikes from the relay coil. After throwing the diode on the relay the pop is totally gone.

Another note is when we turned the light bar off I noticed at times I wasn't just getting a pop but a volume jump as well. At times the deck would jump in volume from 10 to 15 so we originally though it was the steering wheel controls causing the issue so we disconnected them still had it jumping with just the deck.

In the end we disconnected the power lead coming off the relay for the feed to the bar which would power the relay but not the bar so near nothing for a power load and we still had a pop so we dropped a diode onto the relay like some old school decks had back in the days and BAM no more pop no more volume jumps.

 

[Maverick38344]

He called me after this post. It's a 60amp remote relay. It sounds like the coil discharges back to ground after the circuit is opened on the relay side. I believe that the operation is causing a one-sided operation off of the coil to induce a DC offset, which is causing noise when the contactors open. I previously wasn't familar with the phenomonon, but I did a little research and it is a common occurance with magnetic relays when used in DC circuits. Newer ( and more expensive ) digital releays aren't as prone to this event.

 

[Lasherž]

Well kids figured it out. After loads of testing and throwing a bunch of noise filters on everything I could think of it turns out the stupid relay for the light bar was the issue the whole time! I had to put a 1 amp diode on the relay to help with spikes from the relay coil. After throwing the diode on the relay the pop is totally gone.

Another note is when we turned the light bar off I noticed at times I wasn't just getting a pop but a volume jump as well. At times the deck would jump in volume from 10 to 15 so we originally though it was the steering wheel controls causing the issue so we disconnected them still had it jumping with just the deck.

In the end we disconnected the power lead coming off the relay for the feed to the bar which would power the relay but not the bar so near nothing for a power load and we still had a pop so we dropped a diode onto the relay like some old school decks had back in the days and BAM no more pop no more volume jumps.

Awesome, glad you figured it out. I suppose in hindsight that makes sense, so those voltage spikes were actually very high, much higher than the alternator. A lot of circuits put reverse diodes due to coils reversing when they're deactivated, sorry I didn't think of that. Kudos for seeing it through to a solution and posting it, relay switching causing reverse voltage spikes is probably going to come up on these forums again.

He called me after this post. It's a 60amp remote relay. It sounds like the coil discharges back to ground after the circuit is opened on the relay side. I believe that the operation is causing a one-sided operation off of the coil to induce a DC offset, which is causing noise when the contactors open. I previously wasn't familar with the phenomonon, but I did a little research and it is a common occurance with magnetic relays when used in DC circuits. Newer ( and more expensive ) digital releays aren't as prone to this event.

It's a pretty well known thing in all DC electronics, but many commercial relays come with the diode built in or the part utilizing a relay has it as part of the circuit. It's the inverse of how caps discharge nearly unlimited current when the voltage drops, coils discharge nearly infinite voltage in reverse direction when the current drops. It's fried many sensitive chips in many breadboard designs so it's good the car electronics are pretty robust against discharges.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

He called me after this post. It's a 60amp remote relay. It sounds like the coil discharges back to ground after the circuit is opened on the relay side. I believe that the operation is causing a one-sided operation off of the coil to induce a DC offset, which is causing noise when the contactors open. I previously wasn't familar with the phenomonon, but I did a little research and it is a common occurance with magnetic relays when used in DC circuits. Newer ( and more expensive ) digital releays aren't as prone to this event.

Man..Great Read here and Excellent research. Ill Keep this info copied and pasted.Great Info.
I am seeing that most Relays bought these days are not as much as made in Tiawann anymore and being flooded by made in Mexico/at well known parts houses. Nappa is where I usually get mine at.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Well kids figured it out. After loads of testing and throwing a bunch of noise filters on everything I could think of it turns out the stupid relay for the light bar was the issue the whole time! I had to put a 1 amp diode on the relay to help with spikes from the relay coil. After throwing the diode on the relay the pop is totally gone.

Another note is when we turned the light bar off I noticed at times I wasn't just getting a pop but a volume jump as well. At times the deck would jump in volume from 10 to 15 so we originally though it was the steering wheel controls causing the issue so we disconnected them still had it jumping with just the deck.

In the end we disconnected the power lead coming off the relay for the feed to the bar which would power the relay but not the bar so near nothing for a power load and we still had a pop so we dropped a diode onto the relay like some old school decks had back in the days and BAM no more pop no more volume jumps.

Great read and I am glad you got it figured out.Never crossed my mind.Some Crazieness for sure.

 

[Andrewinnewyork]

Awesome, glad you figured it out. I suppose in hindsight that makes sense, so those voltage spikes were actually very high, much higher than the alternator. A lot of circuits put reverse diodes due to coils reversing when they're deactivated, sorry I didn't think of that. Kudos for seeing it through to a solution and posting it, relay switching causing reverse voltage spikes is probably going to come up on these forums again.



It's a pretty well known thing in all DC electronics, but many commercial relays come with the diode built in or the part utilizing a relay has it as part of the circuit. It's the inverse of how caps discharge nearly unlimited current when the voltage drops, coils discharge nearly infinite voltage in reverse direction when the current drops. It's fried many sensitive chips in many breadboard designs so it's good the car electronics are pretty robust against discharges.

Hey great read. I just found this thread (in 2024). I have an amp that produces 2500watts rms and it was working nice until one day popping sounds started to sound out my amp almost every 3 seconds. I installed everything myself and I knew the ground wasn't legit since I didn't even grind it but it worked so I left it like that. After about a month is when the problem started and now I get no sound other than the popping sound. I got the ground professionally installed and bought and installed a 0gauge power wire from SMD. I installed another amp and no problems. I tried testing out the old amp and still with the same problem. Could you help me figure out what I have to do? It's an old amp so sending it to get fixed would probably cost as much as a new amp and I like this amp. I think it's a capacitor on the amp but I don't thi k I could fix it myself. Thanks in advance