You mad at Obama?WERE YOU MAD WHEN..........?

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Apparently we need to start another world war to get our economy moving forward again.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, this country's economy is screwed in the long run if we dont get back to basics, making shit. And if winning a war is about the govt turning domestic factories into war machine builders, China will kick our ***** in a conflict.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Not at all, I just simply stated something that has proven to pay our debt.
If someone says low taxes are good would you say that ZERO taxes are better? I think you are smarter than that.

The idea that all tax cuts generate more tax revenue is nonsense. If that is true, why not just cut them all 99% and pay off our national debt? We cannot "tax cut" our way out of trouble.

IMO, the devil is in the details. Tax increases these days dont go towards paying domestic companies to build war machines, they go towards things like socialized healthcare. Raising taxes on business owners to take money out of their pocket and provide them with less money to reinvest in their businesses is not a good plan, IF that money goes towards hiring more people to shuffle medical records and answer phones at a health clinic. Its a similar idea to wall street, that just passing money around, while not creating a PRODUCT people domestically, and in foreign countries, want to purchase, does not create a sustainable economy. We need to start thinking more globally. People in foreign countries buying American made goods will do more to help the national debt than simply passing our own money back and forth domestically. I do believe Clinton deserve credit for balancing the budget, its just a shame that trend ended with him (including the past 2 years of Democrats controlling the executive AND legislative branch of our govt).

I believe that a blanket statement like 'govt spending will help the economy' is to look at history in a vacuum and draw large conclusions from small viewpoints of the past. During the great depression and WWII, the world was a very different place. The US was the world leader in industrialized manufacturing. We no longer have that advantage in our back pocket to rely on when things go sideways.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

Wow you are dense! How the hell is a manufacturing job a temp job if all that was switched is what was manufactured? You think it was government planing? How does a road make money? Toll road? A dam makes money? That is one long assed time frame of return on investment LOL. You have changed stances in your argument, you said it was the new deal and liberal economics when in fact it was the government needing the private sector to produce. You can keep on trying to bastardize the facts of the matter hell you are already changing what your original argument was. When the government wants a fighter jet they pay companies like Lockheed for it and not open up US Air Force Manufacturing as a factory with government employees.
It is funny as hell watching you both try to save face and claim victory when it is in fact your inability to see how this works amazes me. According to your logic either the money or the product just magically appears because government says so. This tends to make me believe you both live in your mothers' basement and collect a weekly allowance.

So obviously you are implying that no new jobs were created were created by building tanks, planes, etc. So what made the unemployment go from a high of 19% in 1939 to a low of 2% (and it hasn't been lower since) in 1943?

http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/img2009/Wellman/Wellman0626_files/image001.jpg

If all that happened was a switching of what factories produced and no new jobs were created by the government paying for the weapons of war, what reduced the unemployment?

When the government wants a fighter jet they pay companies like Lockheed for it and not open up US Air Force Manufacturing as a factory with government employees.

Right, and when the government wants a dam or a highway built they don't open up US Dams and Highway Inc, they contract a private company to do it. When the US government wanted a railroad system built across all of the US, they didn't open up US Railroad Co, they contracted a private company to do so. But it's irrelevant. Either way, a project is funded by the government, and that money for the project is used to pay the workers.

I never said the new deal got us out of the depression. Of course it was the war that got us out of the great depression in then end. You (maybe not you, but some fool) said that FDR made the great depression WORSE. That is what I argued against. Of course, you aren't smart enough to comprehend that.

Maybe audioholic will jump across the isle here (//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif) and back me up, because I'm pretty sure even he knows I'm right about this.

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

GO Tea Party, Obama SUX down with socialism!

 

[cehmke 10+ year member]

Republicans won the house, Obama wont get re-elected in 2012, and half the people complaining about the " I can't get a job because of the economy " are lazy couch potatos who get to used to sitting at home and getting paid for it from the taxes that hard workers pay every paycheck.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

GO Tea Party, Obama SUX down with socialism!

Republicans won the house, Obama wont get re-elected in 2012, and half the people complaining about the " I can't get a job because of the economy " are lazy couch potatos who get to used to sitting at home and getting paid for it from the taxes that hard workers pay every paycheck.

Do you two try to be this stupid or does it come naturally?

PS: The last time Republicans had a big wave in the mid term election like this was in 1994, and in 1996, Bill Clinton was elected again. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

So obviously you are implying that no new jobs were created were created by building tanks, planes, etc. So what made the unemployment go from a high of 19% in 1939 to a low of 2% (and it hasn't been lower since) in 1943?
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/img2009/Wellman/Wellman0626_files/image001.jpg

If all that happened was a switching of what factories produced and no new jobs were created by the government paying for the weapons of war, what reduced the unemployment?

I never said the new deal got us out of the depression. Of course it was the war that got us out of the great depression in then end. You (maybe not you, but some fool) said that FDR made the great depression WORSE. That is what I argued against. Of course, you aren't smart enough to comprehend that.

Maybe audioholic will jump across the isle here (//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif) and back me up, because I'm pretty sure even he knows I'm right about this.

So are you trying to say that the government bought cars and other items after the war? Enough to support economic growth? LOL you are so fundamentally warped it is almost pathetic. It is the private sector that corrected the country not government planing of business growth. Also think you totally ignore or fail to understand audioholic's war response LOL. This is funny you are confusing two completely different things. Are you calling war stimulus? We are in 2 wars now so where is the stimulus? Where is all this economic growth from the actual stimulus? Come on man since you are so correct and I am so wrong and you like to ignore major factors between the years of 1940 until now please tell us how a stimulus bigger than the entire US budget in 1940 didn't make sustained huge economic growth? So far you are like a person trying to say 1+2=8 when you do not understand what the definition of 1 is or 2.

How long did it take you to become indoctrinated?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Do you two try to be this stupid or does it come naturally?
PS: The last time Republicans had a big wave in the mid term election like this was in 1994, and in 1996, Bill Clinton was elected again. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Did slick willie pass health care? NO

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

So obviously you are implying that no new jobs were created were created by building tanks, planes, etc. So what made the unemployment go from a high of 19% in 1939 to a low of 2% (and it hasn't been lower since) in 1943?
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/img2009/Wellman/Wellman0626_files/image001.jpg

If all that happened was a switching of what factories produced and no new jobs were created by the government paying for the weapons of war, what reduced the unemployment?

Right, and when the government wants a dam or a highway built they don't open up US Dams and Highway Inc, they contract a private company to do it. When the US government wanted a railroad system built across all of the US, they didn't open up US Railroad Co, they contracted a private company to do so. But it's irrelevant. Either way, a project is funded by the government, and that money for the project is used to pay the workers.

I never said the new deal got us out of the depression. Of course it was the war that got us out of the great depression in then end. You (maybe not you, but some fool) said that FDR made the great depression WORSE. That is what I argued against. Of course, you aren't smart enough to comprehend that.

Maybe audioholic will jump across the isle here (//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif) and back me up, because I'm pretty sure even he knows I'm right about this.

I dont know if Im jumping aisles or not, because I generally try to straddle the aisle, depending on the specific topic of discussion. But I will reiterate that if our industrial base is decimated, this argument is irrelevant because we dont have that option anymore.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

So are you trying to say that the government bought cars and other items after the war? Enough to support economic growth? LOL you are so fundamentally warped it is almost pathetic. It is the private sector that corrected the country not government planing of business growth. Also think you totally ignore or fail to understand audioholic's war response LOL. This is funny you are confusing two completely different things. Are you calling war stimulus? We are in 2 wars now so where is the stimulus? Where is all this economic growth from the actual stimulus? Come on man since you are so correct and I am so wrong and you like to ignore major factors between the years of 1940 until now please tell us how a stimulus bigger than the entire US budget in 1940 didn't make sustained huge economic growth? So far you are like a person trying to say 1+2=8 when you do not understand what the definition of 1 is or 2.

Okay, so how did the unemployment go down?

Did slick willie pass health care? NO

No, you're right, I have even less to worry about now, thanks.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

I dont know if Im jumping aisles or not, because I generally try to straddle the aisle, depending on the specific topic of discussion. But I will reiterate that if our industrial base is decimated, this argument is irrelevant because we dont have that option anymore.

Do you agree that in WWII, temporary, government funded jobs building the weapons of war got us out of the depression? It's a question about WWII, it is independent of today.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Republicans won the house, Obama wont get re-elected in 2012, and half the people complaining about the " I can't get a job because of the economy " are lazy couch potatos who get to used to sitting at home and getting paid for it from the taxes that hard workers pay every paycheck.

And 89% of statistics are completely made up. Are there welfare abusers? Absolutely. And to be quite frank, the lack of protection against these people is a big reason why I dont subscribe to more Democratic initiatives in welfare/social programs. But the recession is real, and the dismal unemployment rate is real. I can attest to this personally, as I watched my long standing career dry up and my job get shipped off to India (literally). Im not sitting at home drawing unemployment, Im not unemployed, but Im certainly 'under employed' as compared to 5-10 years ago.

The couch potato argument has some basis in reality, but laying it out in the blanket fashion you describe is simply more partisan rhetoric aimed at demonizing the other side's ideology. We've seen plenty of demonizing of the right's ideology in this thread, and you just gave a perfect example of the opposite also being true. As a whole, the people in this country need to start having more faith in the fellow americans, even the ones who have differing political opinions. As Ive said many times now, to demonize the 'other' party is to play right into the hands of our partisan politicians, and allows them to stay in power no matter how incompetent they may be.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Do you agree that in WWII, temporary, government funded jobs building the weapons of war got us out of the depression? It's a question about WWII, it is independent of today.

Many things helped dig us out of the depression. Certainly historically, it is taught that govt funded building projects for the war effort helped. But I dont think Im qualified to make any blanket or absolute decisions either way, as I wasnt there and my experience on all the details of it are limited.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.

Don't care

You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate Energy policy and push us to invade Iraq .

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.

Who cares?

You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us. You didn't get mad when we spent over 800 billion (and counting) on said illegal war.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when Bush borrowed more money from foreign sources than the previous 42 Presidents combined.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars in cash just disappeared in Iraq .

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"? (did they find that 3.5 trillion that went missing over at the pentagon yet?)

You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when Bush embraced trade and outsourcing policies that shipped 6 million American jobs out of the country.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when Bush rang up 10 trillion dollars in combined budget and current account deficits.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

You didn't get mad when we let a major US city, New Orleans drown.

??? How is it MY responsibility if some dummies decide to build a city on a swamp without proper levy system?

You didn't get mad when we gave people who had more money than they could spend, the filthy rich, over a trillion dollars in taxbreaks. You didn't get mad with the worst 8 years of job creations in several decades.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"? (how about those baker bailouts?

You didn't get mad when over 200,000 US Citizens lost their lives because they had no health insurance.

If YOU feel so badly about them why not go find some bum who won't work and put them on your blue cross/blue shield policy?

You didn't get mad when lack of oversight and regulations from the Bush Administration caused US Citizens to lose 12 trillion dollars in investments, retirement, and home values.

Anything changed now that your boy is "in charge"?

No.....You finally got mad

When a black man was elected President and decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick.

Anybody has the right to see any doctor they like whenever they like, it just so happens that doctors don't work for free, hospitals don't build themselves, and a bloated, over-regulated, healthcare industry is insanely expensive. In simple economic theory there must be rationing of scarce resources. If there were more "supply" of medical care than "demand" a visit to the hospital would be no more expensive than a trip to Mc Donalds. Since, however there is scarcity of that resource, price is the current rationing device. In economic systems where the state tries to manage distribution of scarce resources to "everyone" for "free" the rationing device typically becomes waiting lists and beaurocracy to determine priority of needs for that resource. These are generally easily bypassed or ignored by inner party members, oligarchs, and other elites who now and will always have the best of everything.

So all that being said, now that your buddy oboma is president what has changed?

Do we have more jobs? Is the dollar worth more or less? Do we have more or less troops overseas? How much money have we spent? What, if anything, has changed?

It is my contention that it's just a case of "same **** different pile". As long as the average sheep is distracted by the phony "left vs. right" punch and judy show we'll keep getting fleeced.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Do you agree that in WWII, temporary, government funded jobs building the weapons of war got us out of the depression? It's a question about WWII, it is independent of today.

Government bought goods and services via industry and your original claim was it was the new deal that saved us. So which is it Prox you change positions from the new deal to industrialization and capitalism? Now are you trying to say the customer in capitalistic transactions changes this? Was WWII part of the new deal?