XBL^2 Poll

[Haunz 10+ year member]

For what its worth I did recone and use the H2's I posted about... stock they used a 3" 2-layer copper coil and had relatively light weight cones/caps with a moderate amount of compliance in the suspension... I used 4layer 8ohm copper coils of similar mass and wound down the coils a bit so they were the proper winding height, also used a standard cone along with a single extra soft spider... I had them in my HT setup and they worked great off 500 watts or so each, but I eventually blew them up after giving them about 1000 watts each...

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

Now we are getting into the finer details of build costs in terms of the differences between drivers. Our drivers are built one by one (which is pricey) and it is done here in the US (which is also pricey), but then again we are not paying royalties. The average member on this forum does not really understand the massive difference in build costs of an American made driver compared to an overseas made driver. Part of the reason something like the HDC3 sold wildly, because its end price to the customer is so low, and AQ can do that. But yes, the Icon is not meant for the same market as the mag or shiva.

You are correct, our drivers are not built on a one-by-one basis. They are built at multiple overseas build houses in the hundreds at a time which keeps costs down compared to building them one at a time. The Mag v4 and BM mkIII/mkIV XBL^2 drivers don't cost one or two dollars to make because they are built overseas. Both designs have features and tooled parts that are pricey and need to be built and/or assembled at multiple facilities in order to operate as intended. But as you said, the Mag v4 and Shiva are intended for different markets than the Icon. The new company I am working with doesn't use XBL^2 either because it wouldn't be worth it to the customer. There is a time and a place for everything. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

You are correct, our drivers are not built on a one-by-one basis. They are built at multiple overseas build houses in the hundreds at a time which keeps costs down compared to building them one at a time. The Mag v4 and BM mkIII/mkIV XBL^2 drivers don't cost one or two dollars to make because they are built overseas. Both designs have features and tooled parts that are pricey and need to be built and/or assembled at multiple facilities in order to operate as intended. But as you said, the Mag v4 and Shiva are intended for different markets than the Icon. The new company I am working with doesn't use XBL^2 either because it wouldn't be worth it to the customer. There is a time and a place for everything. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

It is about understanding your market. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

Now we are getting into the finer details of build costs in terms of the differences between drivers. Our drivers are built one by one (which is pricey) and it is done here in the US (which is also pricey), but then again we are not paying royalties. The average member on this forum does not really understand the massive difference in build costs of an American made driver compared to an overseas made driver. Part of the reason something like the HDC3 sold wildly, because its end price to the customer is so low, and AQ can do that. But yes, the Icon is not meant for the same market as the mag or shiva.

your prices are on par with AE's subs that he hand builds in the US. i agree that it costs more than doing what AQ does, but u can also tell the difference in quality, and SQ as u progress. icon will sound better than any AQ driver, and AE will sound better than yours(my opinion).

but with the market wanting #s, AQ can do that so long as it can hold up to the abuse. its actually pretty smart to say the least. and john over at AE makes most of his money selling to home audio and studios, not his car audio line. which is why AQ sells so much, and your more quality drivers get over looked =/

 

[dumple 5,000+ posts]

Mpyre mids woof and I want an icon!! When I got my mpyres I read this to understand somewhat, what I was getting into

 

[R34P3R 10+ year member]

I wish all threads contained this organized, coherent, and educated amount of discussion. One highlight in the sea of meh at ca.com.

 

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

too many trollers and spl threads i mean uhhhhhhh //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[jdc753 10+ year member]

I wish all threads contained this organized, coherent, and educated amount of discussion. One highlight in the sea of meh at ca.com.

x2 was a great educational read. I for one really enjoy my distortionless xbl^2 sub, took a little bit getting used to but now I don't think I could ever go back to a conventional, at least for primary sq oriented setups.

 

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

x2 was a great educational read. I for one really enjoy my distortionless xbl^2 sub, took a little bit getting used to but now I don't think I could ever go back to a conventional, at least for primary sq oriented setups.

what do u mean it took a bit getting used to?

 

[jdc753 10+ year member]

what do u mean it took a bit getting used to?

When I fired it up for the first time it was almost like there was little to no life to the sub. This was also a brand new woofer and it definitely got better with break in. But it blends and transitions soo naturally and has zero boom or distortion that it almost seems as if the sound system has no subwoofer at all. Seemed as if the mids were playing down to 20hz and the sub was doing nothing. A bunch of times I had to turn down the sub level just to notice it was there by its lack of presence.

I have even bottomed mine out on several occasions (3 I believe) and each time it happened with ZERO warning. No audible distortion and no idea that it was reaching its limits, just hit the volume one more click and the next bass note it would slap. One song that has stood out to me is Slipknot - Duality, the entire length of the song has this single distortion tone and on previous setups I have had (probably not properly tuned) made this song pretty much unlistenable when turned up even slightly due to this tone, however on this sub the song is clear and audible throughout.

Now I know I would never sell this sub, and also pretty sure it would be tough to transition back to a typical woofer. I listen to a lot of different types of music and this covers it all, its not a ground pounder or gonna pound in your chest but can be listened to for hours even when cranked up all the way.

 

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

When I fired it up for the first time it was almost like there was little to no life to the sub. This was also a brand new woofer and it definitely got better with break in. But it blends and transitions soo naturally and has zero boom or distortion that it almost seems as if the sound system has no subwoofer at all. Seemed as if the mids were playing down to 20hz and the sub was doing nothing. A bunch of times I had to turn down the sub level just to notice it was there by its lack of presence.
I have even bottomed mine out on several occasions (3 I believe) and each time it happened with ZERO warning. No audible distortion and no idea that it was reaching its limits, just hit the volume one more click and the next bass note it would slap. One song that has stood out to me is Slipknot - Duality, the entire length of the song has this single distortion tone and on previous setups I have had (probably not properly tuned) made this song pretty much unlistenable when turned up even slightly due to this tone, however on this sub the song is clear and audible throughout.

Now I know I would never sell this sub, and also pretty sure it would be tough to transition back to a typical woofer. I listen to a lot of different types of music and this covers it all, its not a ground pounder or gonna pound in your chest but can be listened to for hours even when cranked up all the way.

but people say distortion isnt audible in subs!!! that these low distortion subs dont sound better!!!

oh well at least some of us know...

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

but people say distortion isnt audible in subs!!! that these low distortion subs dont sound better!!!oh well at least some of us know...

You've missed the point I, and I think denim, have made. My subs are 05 RE XXX's, so you are preaching to the choir about preferring BL optimization. Flat BL drivers produce less BL distortion, which means greater accuracy, no question. But when you say "sounds better", you add in that subjective factor that Ive mentioned before. Once you start talking about what sounds 'better' (how most people define SQ, which is defining it incorrectly), it just boils down to opinions, not facts, specs, or flat BL curves. Many people believe the 'warmth' of a tube amp sounds better than solid state, even though that warmth is nothing more than even-order harmonic distortion.

Between the multiple threads now, more than one person has described their first encounter with an xbl^2 driver as sounding flat or lifeless. To them it sounded 'wrong', even though technically its more 'right' than the sound of non BL optimized speakers they were use to. Personal preference going on here, and it took a while, at least in jdc753's case, for the sound to grow on them.

Distortion is definitely audible in subs. But subs are the hardest speaker to hear distortion from due to their freq range. The human ear is much more sensitive to midrange and treble freqs, we hear inaccuracies at those freqs much easier than we do at close-to-subsonic frequencies. This is exactly how manufacturers justified releasing class D subwoofer amps long before they felt they had a design with distortion levels low enough for full-range duties.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

You've missed the point I, and I think denim, have made. My subs are 05 RE XXX's, so you are preaching to the choir about preferring BL optimization. Flat BL drivers produce less BL distortion, which means greater accuracy, no question. But when you say "sounds better", you add in that subjective factor that Ive mentioned before. Once you start talking about what sounds 'better' (how most people define SQ, which is defining it incorrectly), it just boils down to opinions, not facts, specs, or flat BL curves. Many people believe the 'warmth' of a tube amp sounds better than solid state, even though that warmth is nothing more than even-order harmonic distortion.
Between the multiple threads now, more than one person has described their first encounter with an xbl^2 driver as sounding flat or lifeless. To them it sounded 'wrong', even though technically its more 'right' than the sound of non BL optimized speakers they were use to. Personal preference going on here, and it took a while, at least in jdc753's case, for the sound to grow on them.

Distortion is definitely audible in subs. But subs are the hardest speaker to hear distortion from due to their freq range. The human ear is much more sensitive to midrange and treble freqs, we hear inaccuracies at those freqs much easier than we do at close-to-subsonic frequencies. This is exactly how manufacturers justified releasing class D subwoofer amps long before they felt they had a design with distortion levels low enough for full-range duties.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

Have I told you lately that I love you?

Fixed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Fixed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

You should have just edited my post for me. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif