Would you rather have one 12" with 1200-1400 watts or two 12" with 600-700 watts each

[Paradigmonds]

Just wondering what the experts say.

My Ascendant Audio Havoc is arriving tomorrow.

The seller has come to me and offered the second one that he has available for a discounted price.

So, one 12 with more wattage

or

two 12's with less wattage each.

It will really change my amp choice, as well, because I'm pretty sure they are Dual 2 Ohm.

So, with one, I could run it at 1 Ohm, so a RF 1200bdcp would work nicely.

With two of them, I'm limited to running them at 4 Ohms or 2 Ohms, so I have to have an amp that runs higher power at higher Ohms. Of course, I do have two RF 801S on hand, so thats not really a problem, but I wanted to BUY something........haha.

Thanks!

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[negolien]

Depends if you have the room

 

[UGHH]

Get an amp that can do .5 ohm. But I'd rather do 2 myself

 

[UGHH]

https://www.soundqubed.com/Mono-Block_c_29.html

^^ Can do .5 ohm

I'd do the 2200 myself. Or the 1200 if you don't have the electrical for the 2200

 

[bgowdy 5,000+ posts]

Just wondering what the experts say.
My Ascendant Audio Havoc is arriving tomorrow.

The seller has come to me and offered the second one that he has available for a discounted price.

So, one 12 with more wattage

or

two 12's with less wattage each.

It will really change my amp choice, as well, because I'm pretty sure they are Dual 2 Ohm.

So, with one, I could run it at 1 Ohm, so a RF 1200bdcp would work nicely.

With two of them, I'm limited to running them at 4 Ohms or 2 Ohms, so I have to have an amp that runs higher power at higher wattages. Of course, I do have two RF 801S on hand, so thats not really a problem, but I wanted to BUY something........haha.

Thanks!

more and likely the 2 12s are going to be louder(more cone area). id do the 2 12s myself

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

If you have room for 2 12s you have room for a single 15. A single 15 should be louder, better sub, less rise dealing with one coil, less phase issues.

 

[Paradigmonds]

I've got the room ( Jeep Grand Cherokee ), but don't want to utilize all of my cargo space. I've probably got enough for about 2-2.5 cu/ft per woofer.

Should have known that folks on this forum are always going to go for the option for bigger, louder, MORE.

With regards to the comment on one 15 instead of two 12's. There are a couple of reasons I'm getting 12's. First, because I've bought one already. Secondly, I've had single 15's, dual 15's, and dual 12's, and of the three, for a SQ setup, I prefer two 12's. Even with good power and an SQ sub, a 15" sub just isn't as fast on the attack as I always want it to be and can tend to get sloppy on some really hard musical elements.

 

[fatboytyler]

If you have room for 2 12s you have room for a single 15. A single 15 should be louder, better sub, less rise dealing with one coil, less phase issues.

Its hard to beat cone area... A single 15" on 1400W isn't going to be as loud as 2 12" @ 700W a piece. At least it won't be provided they're both in a proper box.

 

[Paradigmonds]

Yeah, two 12's is about 50 sq/in more cone area. I've always preferred two 12's to one 15. I feel like the 12's can still hit some of the depth that some 8's and 10's might have a little bit harder time with, but doesn't have the lag and sloppy weight problems that 15's can have.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing on 15's. If you want a loud-azz system that will rock the block, get 15's............hell, get 18's and put a couple thousand watts on em. Just for SQ and for my personal preference, 12's are the largest I will go now, maybe 13 if I ever went to Focal, JL, etc.

 

[bgowdy 5,000+ posts]

Yeah, two 12's is about 50 sq/in more cone area. I've always preferred two 12's to one 15. I feel like the 12's can still hit some of the depth that some 8's and 10's might have a little bit harder time with, but doesn't have the lag and sloppy weight problems that 15's can have.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing on 15's. If you want a loud-azz system that will rock the block, get 15's............hell, get 18's and put a couple thousand watts on em. Just for SQ and for my personal preference, 12's are the largest I will go now, maybe 13 if I ever went to Focal, JL, etc.

if you like 12s id just go with it. id grab the 12s and not look back

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Yeah, two 12's is about 50 sq/in more cone area. I've always preferred two 12's to one 15. I feel like the 12's can still hit some of the depth that some 8's and 10's might have a little bit harder time with, but doesn't have the lag and sloppy weight problems that 15's can have. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing on 15's. If you want a loud-azz system that will rock the block, get 15's............hell, get 18's and put a couple thousand watts on em. Just for SQ and for my personal preference, 12's are the largest I will go now, maybe 13 if I ever went to Focal, JL, etc.

most educated thing ive read all day, lol

you still have alot to learn but for this question id rather have 2 12s if you have enough room to provide them the proper airspace for a proper ported box.

reason being is yes more cone area can move more air easier than the lesser cone area but it would only be louder at lower volumes when the intensity of the cone movement isnt much different. at high power a single 12 can have alot of energy in direction of travel which leads to a more intense hit at higher frequencies than that of a dual 12 system in split power.

but with a dual sub system u have the ability to later upgrade power without stressing the subs quite as much, and putting 700w on a 500w sub is alot easier for a good sub to handle than a 1200w sub on 1400w for extended periods of time assuming adequate venting design for the sub, especially with modern music incorporating clipping into the recording process. soft clipping doesnt usually hurt subs but dealing with a 700w clip is easier than a 1400w clip since clipping is immediately related to heat build up. 700w will generate much less heat than 1400w.

this wont really matter with the subs you have picked but it is a decent theory.

sub size does not at all correlate to how the sub will sound as far as sloppy or tight goes. a 8inch sub will exhibit a peak at a higher frequency than an 18inch sub but similarly the same peak will happen to the 18inch sub but at a lower frequency. a good box designer can over come both of these peaks and smooth out the response or tailor it to your liking.

ive had systems with 2 8s, 4 10s, 2 18s, and 2 21s, and at the median listening volume of about 120db you couldnt tell the difference in the setups except that the larger cone area subs could play lower down to sub hearing levels. while that is fun and part of real music the 2 8s could easily play down to 28hz with enough authority to please most people.

im my personal systems i usually stick with 2 10s, may they be morel ultimos, infinity kappa perfects, kicker comps at one point(yea i know but i bought them off a buddy that was in a bind), memphis c3s(which i hated), memphis m-class(which i loved), sundown sa10s, sd10s, dd 2510s, dayton ho subs shocked me, and though ive never bought them i have contemplated a pair of jl 10w6.

never really was a fan of big cone area all thats good for is letting sound travel out side the car and down the street in my experience.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Mark Eldridge had a top SQ car with solo x 18s in the trunk. Just saying

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Yeah, two 12's is about 50 sq/in more cone area. I've always preferred two 12's to one 15. I feel like the 12's can still hit some of the depth that some 8's and 10's might have a little bit harder time with, but doesn't have the lag and sloppy weight problems that 15's can have.

Poorly made 15s in poorly made enclosures will have that problem. I listen to metal man, my 15s keep up with double bass pedals no problem, Its better sounding then the 8s i've owned in the past. A 12 inch woofer will have a magnet made for it but mainstream companies dont give a rats @ss about anything else other then profit so they use the same 12" motor on a 15 therefore disrupting balance making it sloppier. A proper 15 would have a stronger motor to compliment the added mass of the cone and keep balanced.

Power has a lot to do with how accurate the sub plays as well. Lets use an SA 15 for an example. even if you have a 600 rms amp, due to box rise and voltage drops along with music being dynamic and not a one note spl burp, you'll see at most half of that 600 rms in action and will sound sluggish. Pair it with a 1000 rms amp, you'll be closer to fully powering the sub and with enough power it can keep up with faster beats.

Enclosure enclosure enclosure! a subwoofer's a below average looking girl, put her in a nice outfit and doll her up and she'll look passable. Same thing with subwoofer and its enclosure. An enclosure is how you will shape the sound spectrum and how fast, punchy, low, high or smooth it plays.

 

[Paradigmonds]

Granted, I will admit that the 15's that I was referring to that weren't able to handle the attack speed necessary for my liking were all mainstream subs, some I've owned, others owned by friends-- Kicker, Rockford Fosgate ( except for the old Audiophile series ), Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Clarion, Cerwin Vega etc.

.........and I have also owned some 15's that were exceptional performers -- Ascendant Audio Atlas, Ascendant Audio Avalanche, Incriminator Audio Death Penalty, and I even had an Elemental Designs 16" woofer that I loved years ago. All of those performed heads an shoulders above all of the "name "brand" 15's. Thats certainly not to say that its impossible for one of those name brand subs to perform flawlessly, or at least as well as some of these lesser known brands, but I just haven't seen it often.

On the same note, I would venture to say that in my experience, and also from a logical standpoint, it takes a lot more power to get 15" of sub moving super fast than it does 12". You're looking at almost 64 sq/in of cone material, and even though the materials used are very lightweight, for a magnet to bring it to a complete stop and fire it off in another direction is actually an amazing feat.

Just as a side note, one of the best sounding systems that I heard in high school was a guy who had three Dayton 8's in a sealed box in the back of his Suzuki. My system wasn't horrible or anything. I had 2 Solobaric 15's in the back of my Jeep CJ7 running off of a Punch 200, but this guy's loudness, but also his sound quality trumped mine. There were guys who had four 12's or four 15's that you you could hear coming down the block, but this guy could hit super clean sounding musical SPL levels that those guys couldn't come near.......with ( 3 ) 8's!! I learned way back then that there is a lot more to SQ and SPL than simply getting a decent sub and putting some power on it. Of course, that was 18 years ago, so I've forgotten and re-learned a good bit of what I knew back then....heh

It all comes down to personal preference. I've seen guys use what most would deem SQ subs to hit massive SPL and others use what are deemed to be strict SPL beaters to put out pretty impressive SQ. In my experience, the two best subs that I've ever had experience with were Ascendant Audio Avalanche 12's and Adire Audio Brahma 12's. With the space that I have, the power that I will likely make available for subs, and my experiences with subs in the past, 12's just fit for me.

15's, 18's, hell even 21's and 23's may work best for other folks out there.

Building my enclosure today and tomorrow. I've been trying to find specs for the older model Havocs, but haven't been able to. I really need to find out how much sealed space I need to give them.

Thanks for all the posts. Winkychevelle probably got closest to what I've been thinking. No reason not to take advantage of a good sub for a very good price that I will likely enjoy quite a bit. I can give up the space no problem and I can always upgrade amps later on.............and I hadn't thought about it before, but with the two RF 801s, I can bridge one on each of them at 4 Ohms and get plenty of power to both of them. So, power shouldn't be an issue.

Have a good one!

Para