with 13 band graphic EQ, diff. to use RTA?

[ebrunn 10+ year member]

I have herd the word oscilloscope mentioned before alot and was wondering if that is something a non SQ competitor would need? Does the average joe need one of those?

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

just realized if i use RTA software i wont have the RCA inputs that, from my understanding, can make using a scope much easier.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

actually, i can just get an adaptor that turns my headphone jack into an rca input. the manual and the whole idea of using a scope is still very technical for me. need a good mic to get anything from it but this software seems legit. u get the featurees that would cost thousands in an external piece of equipment, as opposed to using PC based software.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

nevermind...been reading up on a whole bunch of programs. maybe i would get the hardware/software combo for my laptop if i had an active system, or an audiocontrol digital x-over/eq, but all i really want is an o-scope to set all my gains at their max unclipped output. more than anything else, i want to get my S/N ratio higher, and make sure that i am sending my expensive morel components and unclipped signal.

if i want to use an RTA, i can always throw my install guy at the most $50 to use his hi end one. overall it will still be less $$ than the software/hardware for the laptop, a hell of a lot less confusing, and i will still get to add another tool to my rapidly growing toolbox that i use almost exclusively for f*cking with my system.

 

[Rochambeau 10+ year member]

Two articles on using RTA that you might find useful...

http://tinyurl.com/uq5n4

http://tinyurl.com/sbxmr

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

Two articles on using RTA that you might find useful...
http://tinyurl.com/uq5n4

http://tinyurl.com/sbxmr

thats good sh*t, thanks bro

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I'd use a computer version. Heck, If I was going to the trouble of using a computer for tuning, I'd get MLS instead of a RTA. Much more tuning ability. 2 main things to remember when Eq'ing in a car using software. First off, find your dead areas. Some areas on your EQ will not respond directly to the EQ. A 2db increase on your EQ may not actually increase your RTA reading.

If the prolem is phase related, which is what you describe, ou will either needto adjust only one channel, mess with the placement/aiming/phasing (time alinment) of the drivers covering that freq. You can't fix cancellation with an EQ.

it's almost always better to boost than cut.

That's backwards, your description was right but that statement is wrong.

dead area almost always needs to be tuned BY EAR.

A truly dead area in the freq response is never going to even respond to EQ. It's caused as I mentioned above by differing path lengths to the mic of drivers playig the same freq. Boosting those freqs just causes more amplifier powr to get acoucially cancelled out and increases the chance of clipping the amp ruining the response across the whole spectrum.

At the end of the day, if it sounds bad to you, it doesn't matter if you think it's correct, your not competing.

Not sure what you meant hear, but the way it reads is exactly wrong. If it sounds bad to you then it is bad. Make it sound good to you. If you compete, you will probably need multiple EQ curves forthe various portions of the comp and then possibly another for your own personal enjoyment. if you don't compete, all that matters is that it sounds good to you. The RTA could show the curve from hell, but if it's what you like then it's all good.
The RTA is a tool. It isn't the end all be all of system performance measurement. Like I said before, serious SQ competitiors would have two or more EQ curves set for the comp, one for RTA judging and one for listening, because a flat measuring car simply didn't sound natural. Before that practice became common, it was pretty standard for the car to be tuned to sound good at the expense of RTA score. The critical listening was worth more points so it was a tradeoff that made sense. As soon as someone realized that you could wire in 2 sets of AudioControl EQs and simply switch each one in or out of the signal path by pushing a button, it became common practice to do so.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

The RTA could show the curve from hell, but if it's what you like then it's all good.
HAHA!

The RTA is a tool. It isn't the end all be all of system performance measurement. Like I said before, serious SQ competitiors would have two or more EQ curves set for the comp, one for RTA judging and one for listening, because a flat measuring car simply didn't sound natural. Before that practice became common, it was pretty standard for the car to be tuned to sound good at the expense of RTA score. The critical listening was worth more points so it was a tradeoff that made sense. As soon as someone realized that you could wire in 2 sets of AudioControl EQs and simply switch each one in or out of the signal path by pushing a button, it became common practice to do so.

good stuff

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

If the prolem is phase related, which is what you describe, ou will either needto adjust only one channel, mess with the placement/aiming/phasing (time alinment) of the drivers covering that freq. You can't fix cancellation with an EQ. That's backwards, your description was right but that statement is wrong.A truly dead area in the freq response is never going to even respond to EQ. It's caused as I mentioned above by differing path lengths to the mic of drivers playig the same freq. Boosting those freqs just causes more amplifier powr to get acoucially cancelled out and increases the chance of clipping the amp ruining the response across the whole spectrum.Not sure what you meant hear, but the way it reads is exactly wrong. If it sounds bad to you then it is bad. Make it sound good to you. If you compete, you will probably need multiple EQ curves forthe various portions of the comp and then possibly another for your own personal enjoyment. if you don't compete, all that matters is that it sounds good to you. The RTA could show the curve from hell, but if it's what you like then it's all good.
The RTA is a tool. It isn't the end all be all of system performance measurement. Like I said before, serious SQ competitiors would have two or more EQ curves set for the comp, one for RTA judging and one for listening, because a flat measuring car simply didn't sound natural. Before that practice became common, it was pretty standard for the car to be tuned to sound good at the expense of RTA score. The critical listening was worth more points so it was a tradeoff that made sense. As soon as someone realized that you could wire in 2 sets of AudioControl EQs and simply switch each one in or out of the signal path by pushing a button, it became common practice to do so.

That's what I was trying to say, while posting when very, very drunk. I knew what I was trying to say, i wasn't mentally coordinated enough to say it,haha, go me! In summation, ( while sober)

1.cut, dont' boost

2.Areas that don't respond will need to be tuned by ear, it's phasing issues, can't eq that out, find those before you play with tuning.

3.Always use your ears as the final judge of overall tonal accuracy

4.Keep a decent set of headphones with you for A/B comparisons.

5.Slightly swirling the mic is still a good idea

 

[Rochambeau 10+ year member]

That's what I was trying to say, while posting when very, very drunk...
5.Slightly swirling the mic is still a good idea

Yes, it allows one to accurately simulate the sway that results from being really, really drunk... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

If you have a laptop or access to a laptop..

 

You can buy a Behringer ECM8000 mic ($47)

a Behringer UB802 to power it ($55)

and an RTA PROGRAM such as True RTA. Get the 1/6 octave version not because of the amount of bands, but because of the PC calibration feature, you will need this if you want an accurate reading. It takes any info that your laptop and mic are creating on their own out of the equation. ($69)

 

 

This is very accurate and cheap if you have a laptop. You will need a 1/8 jack to dual RCA connector and a mic cable as well.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Yes, it allows one to accurately simulate the sway that results from being really, really drunk... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

something like that

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

If you have a laptop or access to a laptop..
You can buy a Behringer ECM8000 mic ($47)

a Behringer UB802 to power it ($55)

and an RTA PROGRAM such as True RTA. Get the 1/6 octave version not because of the amount of bands, but because of the PC calibration feature, you will need this if you want an accurate reading. It takes any info that your laptop and mic are creating on their own out of the equation. ($69)

This is very accurate and cheap if you have a laptop. You will need a 1/8 jack to dual RCA connector and a mic cable as well.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=572477
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[Rochambeau 10+ year member]

If you have a laptop or access to a laptop.. 

You can buy a Behringer ECM8000 mic ($47)

a Behringer UB802 to power it ($55)

and an RTA PROGRAM such as True RTA. Get the 1/6 octave version not because of the amount of bands, but because of the PC calibration feature, you will need this if you want an accurate reading. It takes any info that your laptop and mic are creating on their own out of the equation. ($69)

 

 

This is very accurate and cheap if you have a laptop. You will need a 1/8 jack to dual RCA connector and a mic cable as well.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

When I used that tutorial, I misread it and bought both the external sound card (laptop sound cards are generally not of sufficient quality to get accurate readings) AND the mixing board. Now I have an unused mixing board. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

The external sound card recommended in the tutorial had all the necessary connections and provides the phantom power for the mic.

Using TrueRTA made me realize that I have buku cancellation in my car through the midbass and up through the mids. So now I am planning for a complete deadening of the doors & floors. I am looking forward to doing it as soon as I get all the materials I need.

Yay for TrueRTA helping me diagnose my sound issues! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif