Will my head unit and amp give me clean sound with a 2v preamp output?

[West]

I'd like some general feed back from some audiophiles out there. So I was looking to get some quality sound in my old Camry and wanted a nice screen to play some Pandora radio on the way home (40 min drive is looong).

I started looking around at Best Buy and online (the prices where much, much better online)

Anyways I finally decided on this combo to get some solid sound and a relatively large screen...

Pioneer Head Unit AVIC-X930BT; Alpine Speakers (SPS-610 and 517); Alpine amp PDX-5

I also picked up a mid price amplified antenna in case I want to listen to some FM radio and picked up the Pioneer HD tuner (for fun and to check it out).

My only real concern with the system is the 2 volt preamp output from the Head unit. I am curious if anyone thinks that the Alpine amp (PDX-5) will do a good enough job compensating for any extra noise from a lower voltage? Or will this be inaudible as some have suggested on other posts? If any of you have had experience with the other aspects of the Pioneer AVIC-X930BT, I would also be really interested in what you had to say, such as the claim that Pioneers have better FM reception...

My other question is I am looking for a low-mid price subwoofer to complete this system. Any advice? The amp can handle up to 400Watts for the sub.

Lastly, I got the generally oppinion that Alpine was "the name" for speakers from the sales guy at Best Buy. What are your thoughts on Alpine?

Sorry for the multiple questions, hope to hear from you guys.

-Joe

Click to read more...

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

first off i would get the 4300 it can be had for 360 shipped, unless you really need the nav........i would also do the component speakers up front at least. and the pdx5 is actually a great amp. and the 4300 has 3 sets of 4v pre outs.

 

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

 

but even 2v should be fine if its not buy a line driver to boost it.

 

[accuab 10+ year member]

The majority of preouts are either 2 or 2.5 volts. I wouldn't worry about getting any noise from it. And also, never listen to the sales guy. They're there to do just that- sell u stuff.

 

[Dirtrider4eva 10+ year member]

a line driver will try and boost the 2v signal, increasing distortion, so no do that.

alpine is a decent enough brand, a bit pricey for brand new.

ahh as for front speakers. id really reccomend going with some diamonds, arc, cdt.

for a low price, check out VIBE audio space 3d series, diamond d3 speakers, arc FD lines.

for subs, SSA DCON, DAYTON HO

 

[West]

I really appreciate the advice guys. In the end it irks me that Pioneer cheaped out a bit on the outputs... for the price of that head unit everything on there should have been top of the line or close to it. I'll definately go with component speakers and the 4300 per all of your suggestions.

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

I really appreciate the advice guys. In the end it irks me that Pioneer cheaped out a bit on the outputs... for the price of that head unit everything on there should have been top of the line or close to it. I'll definately go with component speakers and the 4300 per all of your suggestions.

it really is a nice hu i have put 3 in recently i like the layout of the screen also, its nice that it has a 8 band graphic eq along with your basic hpf and lpf

 

---------- Post added at 10:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

 

have you considered going with a seperate speaker and bass amp?

also i guess i didn't see anything about what woofer you were considering?

 

[zako 10+ year member]

My understanding is that the preference for high voltage outs stems from the fact that many (possibly older and cheaper) amplifiers have increased noise level the higher you turn up their gains. This should not be a problem with a good amplifier.

Next, Alpine just announced that they will be releasing the new 5-channel PDX amplifier in 2012. The new PDX-5 amplifier will have 50% more rated power and it will be 3-way active capable. This is _very_ significant. I personally would have waited to get the new PDX 5-channel amplifier.

And finally, have you mentioned that you had been recommended an all Alpine setup? No surprise here! Typical BestBuy, if you ask me. They at BestBuy think that Alpine is the best there is in car audio. In fact, they think that Alpine is so good that they even don't bother to put Alpine's mid level Type-R speakers or high end Type-X speakers on their displays. They figured the low end Type-S is enough to convince a Best Buy shopper that Alpine is the best. Don't get me wrong. Alpine is a good company, but there is probably no car audio company that's excellent in every product niche. Alpine PDX and MRX amplifiers are nice. No arguing there. Could be a little pricey, but they're certainly nice (still may be behind JL Audio though, their most obvious competitor in amplifier market). Speakers? Average at best IMO. It almost seems like a waste to connect Alpine's decidedly average Alpine Type-S speaker to a PDX amplifier. At very least get a Type-R speaker, ideally a component version if you can install a tweeter in its dedicated location. On the grand scale of things, what's considered the top of the line/high end speaker by Alpine standards, is only entry level by the standards of speak specialist companies like Hertz, Hybrid Audio, Focal, etc.

Just to toss you some ideas, if you want to spend $150-$200 (online) on a component speaker, Alpine Type-R should be competitive. If you can afford more, I would recommend Hybrid Audio Imagine, JL Audio C5, or Focal Polyglass 165 VB. All of these cost between $250-$350, online or locally. Personally, I have gone from previous generation Alpine Type-R to HAT Imagine. The old Type-R was not bad, but once HAT was installed the difference quite audible to me. Amazing speaker! Except for Focal VB, all of these speakers (HAT Imagine, Alpine Type-R, JL C5) are either coaxial speakers (HAT Imagine) that can convert into components or component speaker for which exist cheaper coaxial editions (SPR-60 and C5-650x). So you can install either kind. I personally would prefer the components if the tweeter can be placed higher than the mids to raise up the sound stage height. Among the non-Alpine options, HAT Imagine is more of a speaker either for coaxial installs or for tinkerers who enjoy to run speakers with active crossovers because HAT's crossover is best optimized for coaxial use. For a beginner install like yours, if you want to use speakers as components, a speaker set with a better passive crossover network would probably work better (such as Focal VB or JL C5).

In terms of subwoofers, plenty will work fine with 400watts of power. I have been looking for a 12 inch subwoofer of this type to be used in a 1-1.5 cu ft box, and there seem to exist plenty.

Alpine Type R

Infinity Kappa 120.9w

RE SRX12D4

Image Dynamics IDQ

many others..

Any of these should run fine with around 250watts of power or more. (more is better of course) In the end, the subwoofer choice should not affect the sound as much as the front speakers. I have eventually settled on Infinity Kappa and RE SRX12 for two different installs, but the new (post-2010) Alpine Type-R subwoofer seems very interesting too. It's supposed to have very clean sound.

For the stereo, I would suggest to find a unit that features time delay correction for speaker. It does make the sound a lot nicer. However, it is quite hard to find a stereo that has the features you need and also this. It seems like the manufacturers are finally realizing the importance of time alignment. more and more new stereos are coming to market with it.

 

[duro78 10+ year member]

if you have a iPhone you can use it on the 4300 for nab

 

[West]

So new plan... for the speakers...

Focal PS 165 component speakers for the front

Focal PC 690 for the rear

and Alpine SWR-1243D 12" sub

I think the PDX-5 should have enough power to make that work...

The amp has been tested to produce 97 W rms for the speakers and 414 W rms for the sub.

Do you guys think that that's the best bang for my buck?

 

[zako 10+ year member]

So new plan... for the speakers...Focal PS 165 component speakers for the front

Focal PC 690 for the rear

and Alpine SWR-1243D 12" sub

The Focal speakers are supposed to be good, but I am not well versed in the Focal line up. Have you heard them yet? If still in doubt ask on DIYMA forums. There are some Focal fans there. The subwoofer seems fine. It's rated for 600watts, but should sound good on 300-400watts of power. I have run less sensitive sub with less power available.

I think the PDX-5 should have enough power to make that work...

The amp has been tested to produce 97 W rms for the speakers and 414 W rms for the sub.

Yeah, but that 'test' is probably done at 2ohms with 14.4V battery (I bet you're quoting an amplifier birthsheet). If you run 4ohm speakers under voltage normally seen in the car, I guess each speaker will see 50-75 clean watts. Not that 50-75 clean watts is bad. Almost certainly your setup will sound good. But as I have said, Alpine is planning a better version of this amplifier, based on this announcement:

http://www.alpine-usa.com/feeds/promo/2012CES/

The only possible modification that I would suggest is to use a 4-channel amplifier with more power per speaker channel. With four channels, two will power the front speakers and the rear two channels will be bridged into one 4ohm channel to power a subwoofer. The rear speakers could run from the power provided by the stereo deck. This is more of a SQ purist approach putting more emphasis on the front stage, since they usually run rears attenuated if at all. If you take this route, you will have to buy a dual 2ohm version of the subwoofer so it can be wired for 4ohms.

 

[West]

The Focal speakers are supposed to be good, but I am not well versed in the Focal line up. Have you heard them yet? If still in doubt ask on DIYMA forums. There are some Focal fans there. The subwoofer seems fine. It's rated for 600watts, but should sound good on 300-400watts of power. I have run less sensitive sub with less power available.

I have no way to listen to Focal around Knoxville, TN. The audio places around here do not have a wide selection and they want to sell me models they don't have in stock (basically any component system has to be special ordered...). So I choose to trust you guys, at least there isn't money changing hands lol.

Yeah, but that 'test' is probably done at 2ohms with 14.4V battery (I bet you're quoting an amplifier birthsheet). If you run 4ohm speakers under voltage normally seen in the car, I guess each speaker will see 50-75 clean watts. Not that 50-75 clean watts is bad. Almost certainly your setup will sound good. But as I have said, Alpine is planning a better version of this amplifier, based on this announcement:Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

Yes this is from its "birth certificate." From what you are telling me, the Amp can never produce

97W of power to the front and rear speakers since Alpines test is run under near ideal conditions. I got the Amp for 350$ flat and was pretty pleased when I saw the card lol. Have they announced an MSRP on the new model? I may send the old PDX-5 back and wait for the new one... but I am suffering listening to my tape player grinding away lol. (I am using one of those casset tapes connected to my iPhone to get audio output to the speakers). They are boasting 50% more power and prehaps this is worth waiting.

The only possible modification that I would suggest is to use a 4-channel amplifier with more power per speaker channel. With four channels, two will power the front speakers and the rear two channels will be bridged into one 4ohm channel to power a subwoofer. The rear speakers could run from the power provided by the stereo deck. This is more of a SQ purist approach putting more emphasis on the front stage, since they usually run rears attenuated if at all. If you take this route, you will have to buy a dual 2ohm version of the subwoofer so it can be wired for 4ohms.

For me, I love to be surrounded by the high's and mid's. In the stock radio on the 99 Camry I am sending an additional 20-30% power to the rear speakers so I can hear them as loudly as I do the front speakers. Maybe I am a weirdo haha. I like the surround sound effect of being bombarded by tweeters

I am not really into the base as much, but I like to feel my foot vibrate on the floor when it really kicks in. I guess if I wait I can have the best of both worlds...

Thanks for the great advice

 

[West]

O I just found this. Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

I'm not sure, I don't see a drastic improvement in the power output (I think it goes down)... The S/N ratio has been improved though.

The new model

MRX-V60 4-Channel + Mono Power Amplifier

- CEA-2006 Power Ratings:

50W RMS x 4 [4 ohm @ 14.4V ≤ 0.07% THD+N] + 200W RMS x 1 [4 ohm @ 14.4V ≤ 0.04% THD+N]

75W RMS x 4 [2 ohm @ 14.4V ≤ 0.09% THD+N] + 300W RMS x 1 [2 ohm @ 14.4V ≤ 0.06% THD+N]

S/N: 87dB @ 1W/4 ohm

Availability – March

Minimum Advertised Price - $399.95

AND

The old model

PDX-5 4-Channel + Mono Power Amplifier

- CEA-2006 Power Ratings:

75W RMS x 4 + 300W RMS x 1 [4 ohm @ 14.4V ≤ 1% THD+N]

S/N: > 77dBA full range, > 75dBA mono @1W/4 ohm

Availability – Now

Minimum Advertised Price - $599.95

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[icehellion 10+ year member]

Keep your budget and sound goals in mind at all times. Car Audio turns into a slippery slope real quick. Before you know it, you spent 2 or 3K Dollars.

Good choice on swapping out the Alpine speakers for Focal. Alpine is a quality company with quality products, there speakers are good, just not as good as Focals.

 

[jirehn 10+ year member]

I never tried this 2v preamp, But they say it is also good.

 

[DoesDad 10+ year member]

^^^^ West won't be commenting anymore on this forum. Because he's ghey and likes to flame his ghey lovers.