Wil these settings effect anything after I set my gains?

[JohnPD]

I've been told to leave Loudness, Bass Boost, and Volume EQ turned off, but what about Sound Response and Sound Lift? Is it safe to set these to where I like the sound, or should I leave them off also?

Click to read more...

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

I've been told to leave Loudness, Bass Boost, and Volume EQ turned off, but what about Sound Response and Sound Lift? Is it safe to set these to where I like the sound, or should I leave them off also?

You can use them, just be aware they can cause clipping and destroy equipment. You could alway set your gains with a -6db test tone to make it safer to use those features.

 

[JohnPD]

You can use them, just be aware they can cause clipping and destroy equipment. You could alway set your gains with a -6db test tone to make it safer to use those features.

Could I just turn the gains down a bit if I choose to use them? Or set the gains with them turned on?

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

Could I just turn the gains down a bit if I choose to use them? Or set the gains with them turned on?

You can handle it however you like. Just remember this/these important relationships. For every db I need to increase power by ~30%. For a 3db increase I have to double power. For a 10db increase you have to 10x power (+10db will sound ~twice as loud).
So say I like the way the system sounds with loudness on, but that bumps bass up 4db. Then I decide I want more bass, so I turn on bass boost, which adds another 6 db. If I set my gains for no clipping with the volume control maxed out, and turn my system all the way up with loudness and bass boost on, I'll have massive clipping. If I play the system like this for long, I'll eventually fry something. OTOH, I can leave loudness and bass boost on, but keep my volume at 10 clicks below max and I shouldn't have any clipping.

Keep in mind most people like the sound of clipping. Not only does it deliver more power and therefore more volume, it also distorts the waveform and in essence bumps the frequency up, which also adds volume. Clipping will also compensate for power and BL compression. Furthermore, most people will associate louder with better, so after listening at 110db for a while, they'll want to turn the system up to 115db, then 120db and then poof the sub seizes. You just need to know when/where you system clips and use either the gain structure or self-discipline with the volume control to avoid clipping for more than a song or two.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Clipping is no bueno!!!

Clipping is a form of waveform distortion that occurs when an amplifier is overdriven and attempts to deliver an output voltage or current beyond its maximum capability. Driving an amplifier into clipping (or sending a clipped signal from the HU and amplifying it) may cause it to output power in excess of its power rating It is the number one way to destroy speakers, quickly. NEVER run your system at clipping levels, you will ruin speakers doing this. Every vid on YouTube will teach you to set the gains below the clipping level and the reason a good clipping indicator on your amp or meter that tells you where that point is are hugely beneficial... Clipping is not your friend. Gains are not volume controls and should not be used as such. Depending on the remote bass knob or boost frequency, these may function differently. Some cheap gains are just turning the amp up or down; good ones actually accentuate a specific “boosted” band of frequencies. If you don’t have the ability to gauge the clipping level, set the volume at low to mid on the HU, then adjust the gain up until it meets a low to mid volume in the car that is a fairly safe way to do it. The "bass boost" is a preference and if you have the headroom on the amp, should be used to attenuate your bass sound preference, not as a way to make up for output that isn’t there due to amp or subwoofer limitations.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

Clipping is no bueno!!!

Clipping is a form of waveform distortion that occurs when an amplifier is overdriven and attempts to deliver an output voltage or current beyond its maximum capability. Driving an amplifier into clipping (or sending a clipped signal from the HU and amplifying it) may cause it to output power in excess of its power rating It is the number one way to destroy speakers, quickly. NEVER run your system at clipping levels, you will ruin speakers doing this. Every vid on YouTube will teach you to set the gains below the clipping level and the reason a good clipping indicator on your amp or meter that tells you where that point is are hugely beneficial... Clipping is not your friend. Gains are not volume controls and should not be used as such. Depending on the remote bass knob or boost frequency, these may function differently. Some cheap gains are just turning the amp up or down; good ones actually accentuate a specific “boosted” band of frequencies. If you don’t have the ability to gauge the clipping level, set the volume at low to mid on the HU, then adjust the gain up until it meets a low to mid volume in the car that is a fairly safe way to do it. The "bass boost" is a preference and if you have the headroom on the amp, should be used to attenuate your bass sound preference, not as a way to make up for output that isn’t there due to amp or subwoofer limitations.

Clipping is fine and is difficult to avoid since music is often either recorded with a clipped signal or the signal gets clipped during compression. Most Koren and Taiwanese amps can handle a good bit of clipping as can quality subs. Totoro/Eric Chan used to provide a CD with clipped signals to help set your gains with clipping before fading away. You just have to understand what you're doing and not overdue the clipping.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Clipping is fine and is difficult to avoid since music is often either recorded with a clipped signal or the signal gets clipped during compression. Most Koren and Taiwanese amps can handle a good bit of clipping as can quality subs. Totoro/Eric Chan used to provide a CD with clipped signals to help set your gains with clipping before fading away. You just have to understand what you're doing and not overdue the clipping.

I’m not sure where you are getting your information but it is not correct. You should never run anything when it is clipping, ever. There is a reason “clipping” lights are warning indicators, they tell you at just the point the the amp starts to clip (when it starts to detect distorted harmful current getting passed as signal) to scale back as damage will ensue. Telling people that clipping is acceptable is incorrect and could lead to people inadvertently frying their speakers. Playing a reproduction, sounds recorded (distorted from an amp that is clipping or otherwise) that was recorded and then played back from a disc has nothing to do with the amp clipping or setting your gains. Clipping is a form of distortion that limits a signal once it exceeds a threshold. If that threshold is exceeded, the amplifier it will pull raw current and send it to your spekaers instead, this is clipping and will damage your speakers. ANY signal that is clean, even feedback and distorted live or recorded program material that is played back through a clean signal is just that, reproduction of the original source material. Clipping is an electronic function, a physical manifestation of an unwanted current condition experienced by the amplifier asked to perform beyond it's means. It’s never a good thing or acceptable to advise people that it’s okay to operate your equipment in a state of clipping, ever. An amp that is rated to put out 200 watts will fry a 1000 watt RMS rated sub if you operate it while it is clipping. Don’t do it, ever.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

I’m not sure where you are getting your information but it is not correct. You should never run anything when it is clipping, ever. There is a reason “clipping” lights are warning indicators, they tell you at just the point the the amp starts to clip (when it starts to detect distorted harmful current getting passed as signal) to scale back as damage will ensue. Telling people that clipping is acceptable is incorrect and could lead to people inadvertently frying their speakers. Playing a reproduction, sounds recorded (distorted from an amp that is clipping or otherwise) that was recorded and then played back from a disc has nothing to do with the amp clipping or setting your gains. Clipping is a form of distortion that limits a signal once it exceeds a threshold. If that threshold is exceeded, the amplifier it will pull raw current and send it to your spekaers instead, this is clipping and will damage your speakers. ANY signal that is clean, even feedback and distorted live or recorded program material that is played back through a clean signal is just that, reproduction of the original source material. Clipping is an electronic function, a physical manifestation of an unwanted current condition experienced by the amplifier asked to perform beyond it's means. It’s never a good thing or acceptable to advise people that it’s okay to operate your equipment in a state of clipping, ever. An amp that is rated to put out 200 watts will fry a 1000 watt RMS rated sub if you operate it while it is clipping. Don’t do it, ever.

My information is from a little over 35 years of participating in the hobby as a hobbyist, a repairman and installer. It's from learning from some of the best installers in the industry (ie Eric Chan/Totoro). I had somebody on here recently asking me if I had a copy of his CD on how to set your amp to clip properly. Clipping is fine as long as it's done within reason and done with an understanding of what clipping is and as long as you know when you are and aren't clipping. There are all sorts of reasons to set the gains with a small amount of clipping, one of them being music has less continuous power output than sine waves, so when you set the gains to clip you can get maximum output from the amplifier. Most subwoofer motor topologies aren't good at revealing clipping distortion so why not clip a little. You can run a smaller/cheaper amp - although that benefit isn't as beneficial as it once was. Most people can't hear or like clipping distortion. And no you won't fry a 1kw sub with a 200 watt amp with clipping - the amp would fry first or blow its fuse. You might be able to fry a 250-300 watt sub with a 200 watt amp and significant clipping if you were willing to play it full blast for hours or use sine waves and that's still a might.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

You most certainly can fry a kw sub with a 200 watt, clipping amp. What you are refering to when allowing slight clipping to make up for volume difference is related to dynamic range, something that should not be compensated for by running a clipped(even ever so slightly) signal to your speakers. The same reason that you don't run a loudness button at higher volumes on equipmnent where ther is such a button. Clipping is raw (distorted) current sent along with the source signal, it's not a good thing. Using the clipping indicators to set ones gains is to prevent clipping! Granted, there are not only different types of audio clipping but there’s also ranges of severity. Almost every professionally recorded, mixed, and mastered piece of audio you hear has clipping audio built into it on purpose. That is different than an amp that is clipping, reproducing a signal that has a certain level of distortion is not the same as running a signal into overdrive. That’s because you can have minor amounts of peaking that aren’t noticeable but give you more ‘headroom’ in order to let you have a louder audio source. But when you have major amounts of peaking audio you’ll definitely hear it. In most cases it will do damage to your listening equipment. Your level of understanding and how to benefit from living on that edge, extracting every last bit of volume is not what most are able to do and not recommended for the average person who doesn't have the right equipment to measure and apply the subtle tuning you are referring to. You’ll know when you have severe clipping because you’ll hear it. It sounds like the audio is starting to ‘break up,’ which is light distortion. The more severe it is, the more distorted the music begins to sound until it can become unrecognizable in an ocean of noise and loudness. The reason people should care, beyond it sounding bad, is that speakers have physical components that react to the audio signal. In electronics, volume is directly associated with the amount of voltage you’re sending through, and higher voltage means higher temperatures, excessive voltage (clipping) leads to damaged goods. If you allow your speakers to clip long enough, they will experience overheating and damage to the coils. Because the woofers vibrate to reproduce sound, the clipped off portions of a signal can cause a jarring (spike) movement that can ultimately rip the fabric of the cone or tear it away from the sides. This is not a good thing. Clipping indicators (warning lights) on home equipment are there to alert you to the danger that is occurring so you can correct the situation, ignoring this situation will surely damage equipment, guaranteed. I understand what you are alluding too, but it’s very fine line between understanding this and being able to manipulate it to ones benefit. Why take the chance.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

You most certainly can fry a kw sub with a 200 watt, clipping amp. What you are refering to when allowing slight clipping to make up for volume difference is related to dynamic range, something that should not be compensated for by running a clipped(even ever so slightly) signal to your speakers. The same reason that you don't run a loudness button at higher volumes on equipmnent where ther is such a button. Clipping is raw (distorted) current sent along with the source signal, it's not a good thing. Using the clipping indicators to set ones gains is to prevent clipping! Granted, there are not only different types of audio clipping but there’s also ranges of severity. Almost every professionally recorded, mixed, and mastered piece of audio you hear has clipping audio built into it on purpose. That is different than an amp that is clipping, reproducing a signal that has a certain level of distortion is not the same as running a signal into overdrive. That’s because you can have minor amounts of peaking that aren’t noticeable but give you more ‘headroom’ in order to let you have a louder audio source. But when you have major amounts of peaking audio you’ll definitely hear it. In most cases it will do damage to your listening equipment. Your level of understanding and how to benefit from living on that edge, extracting every last bit of volume is not what most are able to do and not recommended for the average person who doesn't have the right equipment to measure and apply the subtle tuning you are referring to. You’ll know when you have severe clipping because you’ll hear it. It sounds like the audio is starting to ‘break up,’ which is light distortion. The more severe it is, the more distorted the music begins to sound until it can become unrecognizable in an ocean of noise and loudness. The reason people should care, beyond it sounding bad, is that speakers have physical components that react to the audio signal. In electronics, volume is directly associated with the amount of voltage you’re sending through, and higher voltage means higher temperatures, excessive voltage (clipping) leads to damaged goods. If you allow your speakers to clip long enough, they will experience overheating and damage to the coils. Because the woofers vibrate to reproduce sound, the clipped off portions of a signal can cause a jarring (spike) movement that can ultimately rip the fabric of the cone or tear it away from the sides. This is not a good thing. Clipping indicators (warning lights) on home equipment are there to alert you to the danger that is occurring so you can correct the situation, ignoring this situation will surely damage equipment, guaranteed. I understand what you are alluding too, but it’s very fine line between understanding this and being able to manipulate it to ones benefit. Why take the chance.

You cannot fry a 1kw sub with a 200 watt amp because regardless of how much you clip a 200 watt amp you will always fry the amp or hopefully the fuses before you hit 1kw.

You're welcome to be scared of clipping and terrify others about clipping with misinformation, but that doesn't make it reality nor does that make the misinformation you're posting true.

You can clip and it can be done safely. No the clipped signal isn't going to rip the sub's surround or spider or we wouldn't be able to run square waves thru speakers and the clipping present in so many recordings would blowing speakers all the time, so lets cross that off the "never ever clip under any circumstances" list. You cannot clip an amp into an "ocean of noise" - the amp will fail first and the power supply will not be able to maintain voltage at those levels of clipping, so let's cross that off the list. Plenty of people run their amps into clipping, the clipping indicator is there to let you know you're clipping not to signal impending doom and that your speakers will be failing any moment now. DJs often run their equipment at clipping and they're depending on their equipment to make money. Something else to be crossed off the "never ever clip" list.

It's not rocket science and can easily be explained a post or two. Some 18 year old kid who just installed his first audio system can understand that if he set his gains not to clip, but turns on 6db of bass boost he's going to clip. Should he play Bass Mechanic for at max volume for hours under these conditions - probably not. Can he compensate by turning the volume down 3db and play Bass Mechanic all day long - sure can. And if he's playing Van Halen, he can get away with the 6db of clipping all day long. If you can do simple addition and subtraction, then you can safely clip.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

The fact that you mention the need for a circuit to blow before it fry's the woofer is indemic to my point and a matter of symantics; we did not include a protection circiut in the intital and susequent post. Playing music that is clipping should be avoided, plain and simple. There is no benefit unless your doing a SPL drag race and need every single extra ounce of source program aplified for the "burp". I respectfully disagree that there is any good reason to push the limits for regular sound enjoyment. I will agree that under supervised, very limited applications where it can be contiuously monitred that you can, for a bit, get away with it. That is not my idea of a daily driver.

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

i turn all processing off (loudness, boost etc) and only cut with my eq. if it doesnt hit hard enough, id upgrade

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

i turn all processing off (loudness, boost etc) and only cut with my eq. if it doesnt hit hard enough, id upgrade

But I'm sure those Oz Matrixs have seen 2x rated power at some point if not quite often.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

O.P. If you like those audio enhancements that you listed then set them where you want to use them then set the amplifier gains after.

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

But I'm sure those Oz Matrixs have seen 2x rated power at some point if not quite often.

maybe