why is efficiency so critical

[bigbassman Premium Member]

noob //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Don't hate me cause Im noobishful.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Loyd L.

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

LOL this thread is one of the reasons why knowledgable people don't like to spend time on this forum.

Some of you guys can't argue without sounding like assholes even if you are right.

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

how about an example:
10" tc-3000 vs 15" tc-3000

everything is pretty much equal (for the most part)

SPL on the 15" is 4dB higher.

which is louder?

don't give me different cone size bs, what do you think sensitivity directly relates to?? CONE SIZE and effective motor force which includes the Bl and moving mass.

Efficiency relates to Fs, Vas, and Qes... which is used to generate the efficiency spec... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

oh.. in the above comparision.. if everything was equal.. including the box sizes... I'd probably take the 10" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Loyd L.

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

I don't hate , just fear you near rickety shelters //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Since...

"actual systems"

"loud Daily Drivers"

"SPL Finals"

and

"Sealed or Ported Boxes"

aren't in Remotia arguement, I guess He justs sits out in the middle of a green pasture playing with speakers, where real world applications of speakers dont exsist.

Listen buddy I know you are a big deal at TC sounds, but you are trying to prove a speaker is louder by showing params. on paper. Its not going to happen. Everyone in the Caraudio community is concerend with real world results, which loyd has shown dont match up with On paper parameters. Just go back to your test lab and play with your computer programs and 3D models.

 

[SQBubble 10+ year member]

Since...
"actual systems"

"loud Daily Drivers"

"SPL Finals"

and

"Sealed or Ported Boxes"

aren't in Remotia arguement, I guess He justs sits out in the middle of a green pasture playing with speakers, where real world applications of speakers dont exsist.

Listen buddy I know you are a big deal at TC sounds, but you are trying to prove a speaker is louder by showing params. on paper. Its not going to happen. Everyone in the Caraudio community is concerend with real world results, which loyd has shown dont match up with On paper parameters. Just go back to your test lab and play with your computer programs and 3D models.

well.. how Remotia is explaning it, makes sense to me, if ya take 2same drivers, 1 have more sensivity than the other, itll be louder with the same rms u give, but the other one will be louder if u give him more rms...

but im not really concerned in the sensivity of a subwoofer, i dont think it is THAT important in a sub...I like subs that are well built, handles more than rated, and from that, u urself can make it loud or sound good depending on wut ya want, thats about it.

so plz stop. yall arguiyn on something very lame IMO...funny though! haha

btw the new tc-5200 look like a serious beast:naughty:

http://tcsounds.com/tc5200.htm

peace

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

its impossible to have 2 exact drivers with different efficiencies..

the parameters that efficiency is calculated from, have to be different, to yield a different efficiency spec..

Loyd L.

 

[SQBubble 10+ year member]

its impossible to have 2 exact drivers with different efficiencies..
the parameters that efficiency is calculated from, have to be different, to yield a different efficiency spec..

Loyd L.

well can ya explain wut is the point of spl/db..?

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

well can ya explain wut is the point of spl/db..?

the biggest point?

marketing... lol

its just another parameter, that can lend an insight into 'potential' performance, when factored into account with every other parameter..

its not a point at look at spec by itself... for real world in car performance..

Loyd L.

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

My Audiobahn produces 98 dB with 1 wattz0rz ...

bingo..

companies like to play the sensitivity v/s efficiency game..

98 db 2.83v/ 1 meter with a 1 ohm nominal driver

sensitivity is setup to be measured 2.83v @ 8 ohm... which is 1 watt

so 2.83 volts @ 1 ohm... 8 watts...

all the sudden driver looks better.. due to a little misdirection..

Loyd L.

 

[GrnEydDvl 10+ year member]

well can ya explain wut is the point of spl/db..?

It really just seems to not apply well to subwoofers, since they test them free air (read non real world application).

I would much rather see objective real world testing of the drivers in proper enclosures in the car. This is why I am waiting to buy new subs for the truck until after Loyd's big test. Many of the ones on my short list will be tested.

I have never based a sub purchase on the efficiency rating.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Since...
"actual systems"

"loud Daily Drivers"

"SPL Finals"

and

"Sealed or Ported Boxes"

aren't in Remotia arguement, I guess He justs sits out in the middle of a green pasture playing with speakers, where real world applications of speakers dont exsist.

Listen buddy I know you are a big deal at TC sounds, but you are trying to prove a speaker is louder by showing params. on paper. Its not going to happen. Everyone in the Caraudio community is concerend with real world results, which loyd has shown dont match up with On paper parameters. Just go back to your test lab and play with your computer programs and 3D models.

Kyle's argument and Jim/Loyd's aregument are on two differenct spectrums of the correct meter.

All Kyle is saying is, SPL (when measure correctly) plays a roll in how loud the speaker will get, all other things being equal.

Jim/Loyd's aregument is, in a real world application SPL is Moot.

Where their arguments arent on the same spectrum is, everyone is assumeing by louder Kyle is talking about going for SPL burps or loud, where Kyle is simply refering to a given power in equvilent enclosures (the most equal being IB).

It's like an SPL guy argueing with an SQ guy over what the best enclosure alignment is for their own particular application. Both are correct on their own end of the argument.

Either way the discussion is putting out some awsome information a lot of people can learn from including myself.

Also, I think the flames needs to end.

1st non-out of hand real discussion on CA.com ever? I'd like to to stay that. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Why should there even be a disscussion on how a speaker will sound on paper? Thats one the car audio is about Real world info. If not SPL comps would end up being more like a written exam where everyone turns in a list of the TS parameters and the Judges Base their finding on which sub looks better on paper. Debating on how loud a sub will get on paper is like Trying to have *** with a nun, your never going to get anywhere.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Why do you bring up an SPL competition agian.

Kyle's Argument:

Two 10's, IB set up in car. Both with corectly rated SPL's. 10" A's SPL is 90dB, 10" B's SPL is 85dB. Both receive the same exact power. 10" A will be louder with in its limits.

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

Why do you bring up an SPL competition agian.
Kyle's Argument:

Two 10's, IB set up in car. Both with corectly rated SPL's. 10" A's SPL is 90dB, 10" B's SPL is 85dB. Both receive the same exact power. 10" A will be louder with in its limits.

what if driver A has the higher efficiency due to a tremendous peak in Fs ?

or what if driver B has a .3 qtc in box due to its design in that alignment..

then its not due solely to efficiency IMO..

Loyd L.