What is?

[jmc0369]

Efficacy study on 43,548 participants: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
CONCLUSIONS -A two-dose regimen of BNT162b2 conferred 95% protection against Covid-19 in persons 16 years of age or older.

That is Relative Risk Reduction (RRR) and NOT Absolute Risk Reduction (ARR) which is less than 1% (0.84%). There is a great deal of risk to assume for a less than 1% risk reduction in catching covid. Especially considering the minute percentage of covid + people who actually get hospitalized.

In the study group of 18K+, 8 people got covid and in the control group 162 got covid. Plus it was unblinded EARLY with only 2 months of observation. SO there is NO WAY to get long-term safety and risk data.

Outcome Reporting Bias in COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine Clinical Trials - PubMed

Relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction measures in the evaluation of clinical trial data are poorly understood by health professionals and the public. The absence of reported absolute risk reduction in COVID-19 vaccine clinical trials can lead to outcome reporting bias that affects...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Further, considering the FDA seems to be bent on not allowing the taxpayers (WHO FUNDED THE RESEARCH via DARPA, ) to see the study. Who is the government working for? Hint, it's not the people.

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

I can sum up this entire thread in one post.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I can sum up this entire thread in one post.

View attachment 35126

A simple man with a simple post.

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

Thank you for sharing ARR vs RRR. It’s about damn time someone brings it up.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Analogies have to be used for people who have difficulty understanding complex concepts.

You don’t tell a child they’ll aspirate water and die if they go in the pond on the family farm. You tell them there’s a monster that will eat them.

When talking to someone who thinks numbers reported by hospitals and collated by the likes of CDC, Pew, KFF, etc. are “Facebook numbers” and “political posturing”, then they obviously need simple analogy to help them understand concepts.

Oddly, after being given the studies that he demanded, he still claimed no studies exist or were provided.
If you don’t like the facts, just pretend they don’t exist, huh?

Another analogy. I'm shocked.

You're correct: i wouldn't tell a child he'll "aspirate water", because I'm not a thesaurus whore; i would tell him he might "drown" like a normal human talks.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Another analogy. I'm shocked.

You're correct: i wouldn't tell a child he'll "aspirate water", because I'm not a thesaurus whore; i would tell him he might "drown" like a normal human talks.

Kids have no concept of death like adults do. And males figure it out much later than females. It's too complicated a concept. So we LIE to them and use an ANALOGY of death that they are genuinely afraid of: the monster.

You didn't even grasp THAT from my simple post.
And you wonder why I use analogies.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Actually I don't think it's so much using the lie as it is using fear to control the children as fear has been used from the beginning of human existence to control other humans. It is well known that it is easy to rule with fear. Fear of the monster, fear of daddy coming home to spank you, fear losing your toys, fear being sent to live with daddy. It's all about lazy control.

 

[jmc0369]

Actually I don't think it's so much using the lie as it is using fear to control the children as fear has been used from the beginning of human existence to control other humans. It is well known that it is easy to rule with fear. Fear of the monster, fear of daddy coming home to spank you, fear losing your toys, fear being sent to live with daddy. It's all about lazy control.

I don't think fear was used to control humans until the idea of the state and large hierarchies started being used to organize affairs. It would have been disempowering and thus disadvantageous for hunter-gatherers to inculcate "fear" when they needed to hunt dangerous animals to survive. They would have been given the spear as children and taken on the hunt as soon as possible. I have come to appreciate paleolithic man as being so far of modern ahead in so many ways.

 

[jmc0369]

Actually I don't think it's so much using the lie as it is using fear to control the children as fear has been used from the beginning of human existence to control other humans. It is well known that it is easy to rule with fear. Fear of the monster, fear of daddy coming home to spank you, fear losing your toys, fear being sent to live with daddy. It's all about lazy control.

But yeah, instilling fear is definitely a lazy control tool by modern domesticated man. Used by parents, bureaucrats, and by elites.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

I don't think fear was used to control humans until the idea of the state and large hierarchies started being used to organize affairs. It would have been disempowering and thus disadvantageous for hunter-gatherers to inculcate "fear" when they needed to hunt dangerous animals to survive. They would have been given the spear as children and taken on the hunt as soon as possible. I have come to appreciate paleolithic man as being so far of modern ahead in so many ways.

Fear can be used in many ways including to motivate. Though none of us know for sure what the first humans were capable of I am sure fear was something they knew. Perhaps not to the extent that modern humans use it to manipulate and control but I am sure if they were capable of comprehending fear, they could use it as well. Just my 2¢.

 

[SlugButter]

Too little fear causes people to become careless and kill themselves. Too much fear causes people to become hateful and kill each other.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Religion is good at using fear to control. The child worries about the monster in the farm pond. The adult fears the "all loving and benevolent god" who will smite you to hell if you don't have faith or you misbehave.

Regarding the ARR vs RRR discussion for efficacy:

Fact Check-Why Relative Risk Reduction, not Absolute Risk Reduction, is most often used in calculating vaccine efficacy

Referring to a “peer reviewed study” published in medical journal The Lancet, users on social media have erroneously claimed that the reported efficacy rates for the available COVID-19 vaccines are “deceiving” and that the real rate of protection from immunization is much...

www.reuters.com

In brief: " the RRR tells us how much the risk of infection is “reduced in the test vaccine group, compared to a control group who did not receive the test vaccine.” The RRR, or efficacy, tells us "how well the vaccine protects clinical trial participants from getting sick or getting very sick.”
"the ARR “will always appear low” as it depends on the event rate."

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Fear of death has always been what controls humanity.

 

[jmc0369]

Yes, BUT. We are viewing through a modern lens that has been inculcated through religion and culture structures from a control perspective. Fear of death is a symptom of unhealthy societies. I would recommend the work of Stephen Jenkinson for some analysis here. Die Wise or Coming of Age are both great at showing fear of death comes along with a good degree of debasement and or material attachment. As a grief counselor, you get pretty familiar with how individuals and groups handle grief.

Domestication has made us fearful. Not that fear is not known to the undomesticated, just that fear has become a fundamental characteristic within society. When mankind was more familiar with death (children died early, parents died early, death was always very clearly on our doorstep), our relationship with it was more mature. Kind of like with my cats. I live in the country. Our cats are inside / outside, they keep the rodent population in check. We love our cats dearly, but it is a rare cat that lives longer than 15 or so months. We love them dearly, hug them every time like it might be the last hug. Westerners have an unhealthy expectation that we will like to elderhood, or that our children will die after us. These expectations rob us of living and burden us with fear of our expectations not being fulfilled. People who know nature, live in it, witness it every moment; have no such expectations. This is not a dictate upon anyone specific, rather a general malaise of us all. We are not living presently with all. We have no relationship with the elements, much less our fellow man. Covid has made this ever more clear.

 

[jmc0369]

Too little fear causes people to become careless and kill themselves. Too much fear causes people to become hateful and kill each other.

Interestingly, a bit of that is evolutionary. Nature has favored males with less adversity to risk (go get that mammoth, go explore that new land). The same nature has selected women to be more risk-averse and thus stable. It takes a stable mother to raise a juvenile to maturity. Today's corporate/commercial world has turned that on its head. Women want to be able to climb this commercial construct just like men do. Who suffers? The family and the children. Not an argument against equality of opportunity, just an analysis that certainly has a negative impact on society.