Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc.

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

No. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif Too general of a question. You have to give a context. Delay a single driver by 400 hours and it won't appear to move 4ms.

I'm just wondering how proper staging occurred before the magical TA arrived to the forefront it has today. I mean it's a must have according to the other guy //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

I'm just wondering how proper staging occurred before the magical TA arrived to the forefront it has today. I mean it's a must have according to the other guy //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

5 % equipment

95 % install

0% beer

you drunk //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

I'm just wondering how proper staging occurred before the magical TA arrived to the forefront it has today. I mean it's a must have according to the other guy //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

What type of "proper staging" do you get when you listen to your headphones?

If you're going to go for a proper stage with stereo, then your ears have to be in an exact spot. So, what you're asking about depends on listener position, not the lack of T/A. To make a really good magic trick work, you really need someone that can be fooled.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Ok, lets go back to this picture... again::

^^what we have there is the general result of delaying all the speakers to where they are supposedly of equal distances to where all their signal reaches the listen point at the same time.

But that's not what we want.. at least not what I want.

hmmmmm

I have an idea. what if I were to delay the left side some more to where they will be even further (at least what my ear will perceive). would it then make it seem as if I'm closer to the right speakers, possibly making the center focus shift to the right?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Ok, lets go back to this picture... again::

^^what we have there is the general result of delaying all the speakers to where they are supposedly of equal distances to where all their signal reaches the listen point at the same time.

But that's not what we want.. at least not what I want.

hmmmmm

I have an idea. what if I were to delay the left side some more to where they will be even further (at least what my ear will perceive). would it then make it seem as if I'm closer to the right speakers, possibly making the center focus shift to the right?

I just messed with my set up and did delays up as far as my dsp went in meters and did not get a phase shift to the degree anything was "correct" the MORE i used delay the FARTHER off my sound stage became. Fun day I am a greasey pig because I had to change spark plugs as well. This is useing 36 db high pass @78 hz going into a memphis sync standard passive crossover. I know T/A can make little tweaks in an active set up as I had done that when I barrowed a 5th channel amp for my sub. also totally detuned what I had previously as using the passive causes phase shift of close to 90 degrees because it can get close via the passives but can get almost dead on active going straight 24 db slopes between all of the speakers except the sub that is set at 72 db at 78 hz. Also if i delay my sub that i sit on basically it does not "fall in line with the fronts" i have to delay the fronts .03 meters to get the sub to sound like it is sounding "more" like it is coming from the front (as that is also the highests setting I can set it to have this effect) but at the same time it seems to mess with a true "centering" of the mids and highs:laugh: sounds best at an equal delay of the fronts at .02m overall but stages more solid with 0 t/a....my best guess without getting all funky is the 12db passive needs switched to either an 18 db slope or a different type of xover.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

My system is cramped into a little s10. This picture is not exact but gives you an idea what I experience with delaying. Red lines depict the depth of the stage, center and width with NO DELAY. Green lines show wider fuzzier centering a, narrowing of width but a deeper presence of the sound stage. This is just a very basic discription as they both have positive qualities and cons in a few test tracks (7 hit drum tracks, voice stages and phase tracks on test cds)

 

[donpisto 5,000+ posts]

I would like to know how the eliteness of ca.com implements time alignment or your general thoughts about it.
Do you use it?

Yes

Do you care for it?

yes

What's your method(s)?

Call up the homie named James Bang and tell him I needs help.

Any things to be done before the T/A process?

Grab a couple of beers?

What are you trying to achieve (goals) with T/A?

A proper stage

are you gay? (optional)

Only when I'm not gay.

Just post whatever the hell you want about time alignment here.

It rocks my socks off.

..

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

so horns are completely stupid for this thread.

what if james, you made a hole in your firewall and mounted your horns in the engine bay so you gain more pld on them

 

[mcsoul 10+ year member]

I'm having issues with t/a on songs that are already spatially enhanced by the producer.

There are a lot of U2 songs and some others that have the issue.

The vocal track is fine, high and centered as it should be, but the spatially enhanced

stuff is low and to the sides. If you listen to these songs in normal stereo, they sound

the way they should.

Here is an example of a song I have noticed this on, when using t/a:

http://rapidshare.com/files/165678892/Smallville_Enhanced_Soundtrack_-_CD1_Track_01_-_Remy_Zero_-_Save_Me.mp3

Let me know if it sounds fine on your car stereo with t/a if you get a chance.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

Where is it James, I cant find it?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Where is it James, I cant find it?

lazy focker: it was right here.. http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5586233&postcount=86

 

[bikinpunk 10+ year member]

Ok, lets go back to this picture... again::

^^what we have there is the general result of delaying all the speakers to where they are supposedly of equal distances to where all their signal reaches the listen point at the same time.

But that's not what we want.. at least not what I want.

hmmmmm

I have an idea. what if I were to delay the left side some more to where they will be even further (at least what my ear will perceive). would it then make it seem as if I'm closer to the right speakers, possibly making the center focus shift to the right?

This is going to be hard to explain, but hopefully it makes sense…

That diagram is basically showing how you mimic (achieve) width in a car; where the drivers would then be equidistant from the listener. You can T/A, but you can’t physically move the drivers. So, all you’re doing is creating the illusion. I think the big point here is to realize that you’re, again, not physically moving the drivers. IF you could do this, then, yes, the rationale that the center is dead in front of you at the drivers seat would hold true. But, in the case of the environment, it doesn’t pan out (haha… nice pun)

Does that make any sense?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

isn't there an old term or equation where you take what you do to the driver side and divide it by pi then add that delay to the passenger side or divide what the tape method calls for on the drivers side or something like that?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

isn't there an old term or equation where you take what you do to the driver side and divide it by pi then add that delay to the passenger side or divide what the tape method calls for on the drivers side or something like that?

Not that I know of. I stay away from all the calculations. I do it all by ear. not eq though.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Not that I know of. I stay away from all the calculations. I do it all by ear. not eq though.

Jerry Zeigler wrote it out for me about 12 years ago. Jerry was a big time Image Dynamics competitor at the time. He graduated with my cousin from high school and worked at a shop I used to work at (he was there and left before i started). He almost had me spending 5 grand in ODR stuff back in the day LOL. I dug up what he wrote out when I installed my sony equipment but I couldn't get it to work. I always thought it had to be a shift or lack there of caused by my passive xovers. It also had some other information in it that delt with frequency response of the driver you were delaying.