Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc.

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Random thought re: polishing a turd:

I think I am trying to polish a turd with a thread like this on ca.com. Yeah I said it.

I'm trying to find out how bad this turd smells first. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Random thought re: polishing a turd:
I think I am trying to polish a turd with a thread like this on ca.com. Yeah I said it.

I'm trying to find out how bad this turd smells first. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

That is a VERY old saying (also used to describe EQing). Believe it or not a lot of competitors had time alignment and so forth back in the mid/late 90's (ID one, pioneer odr, couple other digital processors) I would take placement over a processor any day. When all else fails become a phase jumping mother ****er LOL

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Though, I engage in all this audio small talk, I'm at a..phase in my life where I'm not caring for car audio like I used to. It's a very very very small phase of my life, but still.. How is this relevant?. I don't know. Its just a phase I'm going through.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Though, I engage in all this audio small talk, I'm at a..phase in my life where I'm not caring for car audio like I used to. It's a very very very phase of my life, but still.. How is this relevant?. I don't know. Its just a phase I'm going through.

LOL I know what you mean I ran my system between active and passive and did not set up my phase correctly for about 6 weeks //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif just depends on how bad i want to dig into it.

 

[Horsemanwill 10+ year member]

i use t/a. and i think it's very usefull thing but at the same time you shouldn't abuse it. after so far i want to say more then 5ms more then likely you can make some physical adjustments to your system to correct.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

^^^^^If that's alpine's diagram of T-corr and what it does or should do, then whytf does picture below is the outcome of it???

 

 

someone let me know.. i would really like to understand this crap.

 

[MikeyB 5,000+ posts]

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Based on what pic you posted it shows the system centering towards the driver instead of the sound stage...if you have horns and you cant get them to center there be something WRONG with how they are mounted

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Based on what pic you posted it shows the system centering towards the driver instead of the sound stage...if you have horns and you cant get them to center there be something WRONG with how they are mounted

well let's say I have tweets like normal folks...

Alpine's explanation of t-corr is to have all the speakers' signal to reach you at the same time and be at equal distance from you. If that's the case wouldn't that make the center image right in front of you???

In other words, if all the speakers are of equal distance from you, aren't you basically in the middle of those speakers?? which would make the center image right in front of you?

am I on the right track here?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Yes but technacally it is not "correct"...sound stage you are trying to create should not have "boundries" as you well know you can make a speaker "sound" farther away but to do what they are saying many aspects will still appear to be coming from a closer source ..thats is why we center the car to try and BALANCE it..if you do it right you more than likely will start to or totally forget you are listening to a car...which is what a propper hornie set up generally does

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Yes but technacally it is not "correct"...sound stage you are trying to create should not have "boundries" as you well know you can make a speaker "sound" farther away but to do what they are saying many aspects will still appear to be coming from a closer source ..thats is why we center the car to try and BALANCE it..if you do it right you more than likely will start to or totally forget you are listening to a car...which is what a propper hornie set up generally does

OH! it's making a little more sense how. boundaries. I see.

So, though you're delaying the speakers to where they're further, the speakers are still physically near you mounted in the doors/kicks/pillars.

So I guess that brings you to this point (with alpine's approach):

HEY that kinda looks like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Best thread evAr.

I rally think you're on to something, Dr Bang. I guess I just assumed those auto correct T/A features would center the image to the car, not to the listener, but what you're saying does make sense.

I've tried the "correct" way to set up the T/A with my P9 by measuring the relative distance from my head to all of the drivers and then putting them into the menu, but is always turns out worse.

So, I like T/A and feel it's necessary for my own listening tastes and satisfaction, but I DON'T like the way it's implemented according to what you're saying. If Shakira was always in front of me like that, it would drive me nuts. If I went to her concert, should I really expect her and the band to shift to where ever I'm sitting? Seriously, if you listening to a live recording where she's waking from stage center to stage left (our left, not hers)....by your picture....she would walk off the side of your dash and into oncoming traffic! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif What the?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Best thread evAr.
I rally think you're on to something, Dr Bang. I guess I just assumed those auto correct T/A features would center the image to the car, not to the listener, but what you're saying does make sense.

I've tried the "correct" way to set up the T/A with my P9 by measuring the relative distance from my head to all of the drivers and then putting them into the menu, but is always turns out worse.

So, I like T/A and feel it's necessary for my own listening tastes and satisfaction, but I DON'T like the way it's implemented according to what you're saying. If Shakira was always in front of me like that, it would drive me nuts. If I went to her concert, should I really expect her and the band to shift to where ever I'm sitting? Seriously, if you listening to a live recording where she's waking from stage center to stage left (our left, not hers)....by your picture....she would walk off the side of your dash and into oncoming traffic! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif What the?

She should be very glad that we have those boundaries, where our speakers are actually mounted.

It would be better if we have her centered on the windshield, though, so that she wouldn't even have to worry.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

This placement would be much more safe for Shakira:

But Alpine's measurement method won't put her there.... which sucks ***. That means we have stop getting spoonfed and actually think for ourselves and think of a way to get her right in the center of the soundstage like she would normally while at concerts shaking her ***.