Time Alignment and crossover networks on the P860

[JonJT 10+ year member]

On the P860, when the crossover network is set for high/mid/low, does adjusting the time alignment effect all three chanels at once? Or can I adjust the high, mid and low channels independently? I called Pioneer customer service, but everytime I get some rep that doesn't know what he or she is talking about.

Click to read more...

 

[djman37 5,000+ posts]

time alignment for each section of a crossover is some pretty major processing. I'd like to know when you find out. Some of the higher altomobile stuff can do amazing things.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

I'd like to know as well seeing how I only used my 860 in standard mode I cannot answer this question.

I know the DEQ-P9 has independent alignment for all 8 channels. But that is a 800 unit by itself.

 

[djman37 5,000+ posts]

what kind of vehicle do ya need this time alignment for? some people delay the front stuff to match phase w/a sub in the rear of an suv or large car.

 

[JAZN 5,000+ posts]

in network mode, u can control the TA for all 3 sources, left and right. u can control the L-high, L-mid, L-low and R-high, R-mid, R-low all independently. for the xovers, u can LP the low, bandpass the mid, and HP the high. adjustable slopes on all xover points.

 

[djman37 5,000+ posts]

dang, that's nice!

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

what kind of vehicle do ya need this time alignment for? some people delay the front stuff to match phase w/a sub in the rear of an suv or large car.

I don't need it for all of them but the fact that I have it is a good thing just in case things change in the future. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

I need the time alignment to "move" the soundstage to the correct place. And TA for 6 channels from an HU isn't that big of a deal, I know that the top 2 Eclipse models can do it. ANd yeah, the altomobile Drive series is **** amazing, but WAY out of my price range. Basically, the P860 can do everything I want, save for having a 4 way crossover (I only know of 2 devices that can handle a 4 way on its own, the Audiocontrol 4XS and the Altomobile Drive 30) and infinitly variable frequency points for it's crossover filters. But, at the same time, it will cost me about 350 dollars, half of the Eclipse CD8455 that I was going to buy, and it's a good sounding unit. That 300+ dollars that I saved are going to buy me a 12 disc changer, tweeters and all the mounting hardware, cables, RCA wires, fibreglassing materials and sound deadning. I'm very happy.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

what kind of vehicle do ya need this time alignment for? some people delay the front stuff to match phase w/a sub in the rear of an suv or large car.

Time alignment and phase are not really the same thing. I don't see y you would need to "match phase" with a woofer that is not playing the same frequencies as you anyway. Being that the lower frequencies have a longer wavelength, they are not going to have their peaks and troughts at the same time and "place" as the higher frequencies comming from the front stage. If you were to look at the car environment on an ossciliscope, you'd see what I mean.

 

[JAZN 5,000+ posts]

a clarion drz9255 can do 4 way.

 

[djman37 5,000+ posts]

Time alignment and phase are not really the same thing. I don't see y you would need to "match phase" with a woofer that is not playing the same frequencies as you anyway. Being that the lower frequencies have a longer wavelength, they are not going to have their peaks and troughts at the same time and "place" as the higher frequencies comming from the front stage. If you were to look at the car environment on an ossciliscope, you'd see what I mean.

my bad on using the term phase. The point was the 'arrival' of the sound as referenced to time. Unleashing 8 channels of TA on someone not familiar can be as bad as a noob making a graphic EQ 'smile'.

ps. wish i had an o-scope at home

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

my bad on using the term phase. The point was the 'arrival' of the sound as referenced to time. Unleashing 8 channels of TA on someone not familiar can be as bad as a noob making a graphic EQ 'smile'.
ps. wish i had an o-scope at home

O, because of path lenght differeces I would guess. ALthough, I've never heard of that myself, especially cause Humans are not that sensative to pathlength differences and imaging on low frequencies and cause most of the low frequency information in our music is not very "complicated". But whatever, I'll just have to wait and see.

Edit: nice post count, I love 427 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

a clarion drz9255 can do 4 way.

Well it should, isn't that HU almost 1000 dollars street price?

 

[djman37 5,000+ posts]

here's a quote from an audio guy much smarter than me. why i used the word phase...

To understand time alignment, you need to understand phase, and phasing relationships between various parts in the audio circuit. Absolute phase means that when the audio signal goes positive, the speaker cone pushes into the listening space. Reversing the speaker wires reverse the phase, and the phase angle becomes 180 degrees rather than absolute zero. If left in reverse phase, the sound will be delayed by 1/2 cycle. This delay can be converted to inches based on frequency and effects the arrival times of sound to the ear. The ear perceives this as depth or distance from the sound emitting object.

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

^ that was helpful!

I didn't know that.