Sundown vs AQ vs yo mama

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

At 500-watts the power handling advantage of the SA-12 doesn't come into play -- but in my testing it out-performs the SDC at under 40 Hz by a fair amount. Some people may prefer the sound of one or the other more... up to the individual there.

where is the video proving the sa-12 got higher #s off same power?

look dont get me wrong the sa-12 is a nice sub. it probably will handle more power than the aq. but why are u going to buy a 600watt sub and push it with 1200 watts daily?

makes no sense. buy a 1000 or 1200 watt sub and push that power then.

until someone can prove with some good evidence the sa-12 off like 800 watts got higher #s than the aq12 off 800 watts, i wont believe it.

if ur looking to spend less than $200 on a sub that can handle 1000 daily, then i can believe the sa-12 is the better choice. it has better parts which is why it costs more. it would be more reliable on well over its rms rating.

hey maybe im wrong, i dont have a problem with it as im no expert, but until im proven wrong, i wont believe that the sa-12 is better on the same 600-800 watts over the aq12.

just my thoughts and my opinion

 

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

You nailed it in your post... they are extremely difficult to tear up -- that is what 99% of car audio customers are looking for whether they want to admit it or not.
Not only that but they sound really good (also measure well per my Klippel data) and get loud.

Went to a stereo show over the weekend and counted 84 of the SA series woofers at that show... obviously there is something to like about them.

im not saying they arent great. im not saying i wouldnt run them, i would love to...

but ur basically admitting that you built the product to do well over rated and take abuse and not fail. while that is great and all, does not mean off the rated power its better than the next sub.

if someone wants to buy a 600watt rms sub and push 1200 to it daily, obviously the sa-12 is probably up to the task.

but thats not what the sub is displayed as. its not displayed as a 1000, 1200, 1500 watt rms sub.

i have a dc lvl 3 running 1200 watts rms daily. does that mean its the best sub out there? no? can it take a beating? yes. am i abusing it? yes. is it holding up yes. so what?

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

where is the video proving the sa-12 got higher #s off same power?
look dont get me wrong the sa-12 is a nice sub. it probably will handle more power than the aq. but why are u going to buy a 600watt sub and push it with 1200 watts daily?

makes no sense. buy a 1000 or 1200 watt sub and push that power then.

until someone can prove with some good evidence the sa-12 off like 800 watts got higher #s than the aq12 off 800 watts, i wont believe it.

if ur looking to spend less than $200 on a sub that can handle 1000 daily, then i can believe the sa-12 is the better choice. it has better parts which is why it costs more. it would be more reliable on well over its rms rating.

hey maybe im wrong, i dont have a problem with it as im no expert, but until im proven wrong, i wont believe that the sa-12 is better on the same 600-800 watts over the aq12.

just my thoughts and my opinion

Honestly I'm not going to argue with you -- if you don't want to believe me, don't -- simple as that. I test products all the time for my own reference and I don't post 90% of it as people get all mad about it.

Obviously you don't manufacture car audio equipment... if it doesn't handle 2x what you say people are going to break it even on "rated" power when they put it in the wrong box, turn bass boost and gain wide open, and let it rip on chopped and screwed music.

In any event -- I'm not going to debate with you at all beyond this. Sharing my results -- if you don't like it, fine, don't buy the product. I think the SA-12 speaks for itself with happy customers.

The SDC is one of the better 600 watters out there that I've tested, though -- and it is certainly quite inexpensive.

 

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

so basically u have to rate it at 600 watts rms because there are too many retards who would still go over what its truly rated at?

if u were to give its true rms rating, prob around 1000, people would be pushing 1500 and 1800 and blowing them and giving u bad rep right?

what can the sa-12 handle daily?

if u say 1000, that puts it in a different category. most 1000w rms subs are ~$230+ which makes the sa-12 a steal at $189...

but the fact its rated for 600 watts puts it in the category of the 600 rms subs... when u compare it against other 600 watt subs with 600 watts, its nothing special.

thats my only point. wasnt trying to argue or cause a scene.

 

[Bob Saget]

At 500-watts the power handling advantage of the SA-12 doesn't come into play -- but in my testing it out-performs the SDC at under 40 Hz by a fair amount. Some people may prefer the sound of one or the other more... up to the individual there.

I attend UNC Charlotte, so I could do a local pick up. If you can do a B-stock SA-12 D2 for the price of the AQ, I'd pick it up tomorrow.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

That is about right... 600 watts is the "cannot break it, period" at this power level rating. We sell most of our products through dealers and many customers are simply not educated about audio so improper installation and adjustment is not uncommon at all. So I designed the SA-12 so that if it does fail I am 100% sure that the customer had nowhere near 600-watts on it.

Here is an example vs. the new Type-R thermally :

YouTube - New Alpine Type-R Thermal Test -- Type-R failed in about 90 seconds and I consider the Type-R to be a pretty good woofer overall.

-- I am clamping 1000 watt peaks and this track drops into the 20s.
Each SA series woofer must pass the above test before shipping to the customer.

In any event... hopefully that was informative. And I am not claiming the SA is the best woofer for everyone in every application nor is it the cheapest woofer out there... but it is one of the most durable woofers in it's class that I've had my hands on and will fit the needs of a very broad range of people.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

I attend UNC Charlotte' date=' so I could do a local pick up. If you can do a B-stock SA-12 D2 for the price of the AQ, I'd pick it up tomorrow.[/quote']
Shoot me an email... I still have 2 out of 4 of the subs from my Jeep available. I used them for the nSPL finals over the weekend.

 

[Cruzer 10+ year member]

so like i said im right. if someone asks for a 600-700 watt rms sub for cheap as possible ill say the AQ12.

if someone wants to push 800, 900, 1000, daily to a 12 for cheap, ill suggest the sa-12.

the guy has 500 watts, which is not enough for either the sa-12 or the aq12 to really shine, so why pay more for a sub that probably will have no audible difference with 500 watts?

now for example i have an aq1200d, does 870@2ohms, if i was gonna push that, i would probably go for the sa-12 for reliability and at that point it might actually have a good lead on the aq12.

but thanks for the info

 

[Bob Saget]

Shoot me an email... I still have 2 out of 4 of the subs from my Jeep available. I used them for the nSPL finals over the weekend.

email sent //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Bob Saget]

so like i said im right. if someone asks for a 600-700 watt rms sub for cheap as possible ill say the AQ12.
if someone wants to push 800, 900, 1000, daily to a 12 for cheap, ill suggest the sa-12.

the guy has 500 watts, which is not enough for either the sa-12 or the aq12 to really shine, so why pay more for a sub that probably will have no audible difference with 500 watts?

now for example i have an aq1200d, does 870@2ohms, if i was gonna push that, i would probably go for the sa-12 for reliability and at that point it might actually have a good lead on the aq12.

but thanks for the info

That's what it's rated, but it benched at almost 600..... it's a ZED Audio built Crunch amp.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

That's what it's rated' date=' but it benched at almost 600..... it's a ZED Audio built Crunch amp.[/quote']
Regardless, I think he'd still use the SDC over the SA.

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

& IMO the AQ sub sounds better.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion(s), but I have to staunchly disagree that the AQ sounds better than the SA. I have personal experience with both products and before powering up with driver it is quickly apparent that the AQ has a concrete (very stiff) suspension and an overall inferior suspension to the SA. The SA uses a nomex spider that is more compliant than the AQ, and the parameters are more adapt to being used in sealed enclosures and ported enclosures - whereas the AQ leans heavily towards ported enclosures. And listening to both drivers side-by-side in similar sized sealed and ported enclosures one thing is immediately noticeable: The SA plays lower. A LOT lower. Assuming that both drivers have a fairly similar inductance to one another (both coils are close in Le) and knowing that the SA plays considerably lower, the SA plays a much larger bandwidth than the AQ. Larger bandwidth = better transient response, and I, for one, enjoy listening to my music that doesn't shelve off after 50/45 Hz.

To the OP: If you come to pick up your SA tomorrow, I'll meet you at Sundown Audio and I'll bring my test SDC 12 and my SA 12 and let you listen to both of them. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Bob Saget]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion(s), but I have to staunchly disagree that the AQ sounds better than the SA. I have personal experience with both products and before powering up with driver it is quickly apparent that the AQ has a concrete (very stiff) suspension and an overall inferior suspension to the SA. The SA uses a nomex spider that is more compliant than the AQ, and the parameters are more adapt to being used in sealed enclosures and ported enclosures - whereas the AQ leans heavily towards ported enclosures. And listening to both drivers side-by-side in similar sized sealed and ported enclosures one thing is immediately noticeable: The SA plays lower. A LOT lower. Assuming that both drivers have a fairly similar inductance to one another (both coils are close in Le) and knowing that the SA plays considerably lower, the SA plays a much larger bandwidth than the AQ. Larger bandwidth = better transient response, and I, for one, enjoy listening to my music that doesn't shelve off after 50/45 Hz.
To the OP: If you come to pick up your SA tomorrow, I'll meet you at Sundown Audio and I'll bring my test SDC 12 and my SA 12 and let you listen to both of them. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

deal //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I think that's what I'm gonna do. I'm getting a badass price & I've been wanting to try the hometown equipment out.

I'm gonna play around with it on a pair of my amps.... ZED Crunch 250 & PPI Art A600.

The PPI has quite a bit more power, but the ZED piece is ridiculously clean.

 

[05fronty 5,000+ posts]

i'm gonna get the sdc's in 15's because it fits my parameters better for what i am going to do. i know a guy with a pair of the sa12's and they shine. side note wonder why the sa isn't made in a 15? i might have leaned towards those in a 15.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I think there is a pre-oder for SA-15's now.

 

[05fronty 5,000+ posts]

I think there is a pre-oder for SA-15's now.

really? dammit now i have to make up my mind again! link?

 

[05fronty 5,000+ posts]

nevermind i found it on the 15's.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Yes, the SA-15 is on pre-sale -- just took some time to get them out is all //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

SDC's sound bad in my opinion...I haven't heard the SA line, but it'd be hard for it to sound worse.

 

[05fronty 5,000+ posts]

Yes, the SA-15 is on pre-sale -- just took some time to get them out is all //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

sent email, i think i will get these esp for the price over the sdc's