Sundown SA-12: less powerful than I tought?

[Golitan11]

By the way, my box is 30" x 14" x 17", with a 3" slot port 36" long. With port displacement, subwoofer displacement and second baffle displacement, it is 2 cubic feet net (tuned at 35 hz). But some say that my box is way to big for that power and I should have done a 1,5 ~ 1,75 cubic feet net box.

Here is a picture of the specifications without port displacement:

Some say it is bigger than 2 cubic feet, but if you calculate the net volume directly (in orange), which is 12,125" * 24,75" * 12,5" + 3,375" * 5,75" * 12,5" = 3993,75 cubic inches = 2,3112 cubic feet --> 2,3112 - 0,14 (subwoofer displacement) - 0,137 (second baffle displacement) = 2,0342 cubic feet net (after all displacement), it match perfectly:

At first I was suppose to put it like this:

But then I ran out of wire to connect the amplifier to the terminals so I had to put it like this (my actual setup):

Overall look of the box:

Also, some say I have way too much port area, which make my subwoofer to have a lower output because it is almost like in free air. Now is my box really too big for those power ratings (800W ~ 1000W)? What happen if I reach the mechanical limits of the subwoofer? Why is it more easy to reach them with a bigger box? Maybe, is it all fine or it is really not recommended (because I do not want, if possible, to build another box (don't have the time and the money) and if it is fine, I would only reset my gain to crank it up more, like 1000W instead of 800W actually)? Help me please. Thanks.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Bigger boxes are more effecient, so are bigger ports. A 3inch slot port isn't overly large for a 12, it's not acting like it's in a free air environment, you just have a very effecient box and port, that's a good thing for the most part. Only issue with big boxes, truly, is that because you get so much extra output near tuning, it can hurt the SQ. Some people don't like them because the woofer doesn't handle power as well, but in a daily driving application, all they are really complaining about is they can't throw 1200 watts on it like in a small box, when really, they are getting just about the same output as they would have on 800 in a larger box. Sounds ridiculous and backwards, but ALOT of people think that way, they get so caught up in RMS that they lose common sense. Same idea as overpowering a woofer so your using a small box, all you do there is make the box ineffecient so you have to use the extra power you paid for. Sure it may now handle it mechanically, but thermally your now taking a risk ,better to make the box the right size for the frequency response you want and then set gains according to thermal, mechanical limits, whichever is reached first, if you can overpower a sub.

The biggest issue I'm seeing with your box is the sub up port up combo. Sub up doesn't tend to do bad in SUV's other than the sharp null at 60hz at the headrest in most vehicles. I'd imagine if you run tones you'll find 60 hz is alot quieter than everything around it. Also, port up tends to **** in general. The biggest gain I think you'll see would be getting that box to face rear so it has something to load off of. Your only running 800 watts, if you ran out of wire go a wal-mart, home depot, menards, etc, etc and get some cheap 12 gauge and see whats up. I think you'll be very suprised how much extra ouput you get when you get that port facing the right way. Right now you have a box that is effecient, but your box orientation is not.

You'll also get alot more rattling and force on the outside of the car, if that's something your into. Sub up port back tends to be the least destructive with good ouput below 60 in my experience, if your curious.

 

[Golitan11]

I just bought some longer wires to face the box back. I will be doing this next week. Now what power should I throw to it maximum with a box that big?

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

That is going to purely come down to mechanical limits. IIRC, SA-12 as most of sundown subs are mechy limited so people know when to back off, good poilicy. So I'd def imagine it would be mechanically limited especially in a bigger box. Set your gains with a -6db tone on, I'd shoot for around 1000 watts of power out of your amp as that's probably borderline clipping the output, but shouldn't be too bad. If you hit over excursion, stop. I'd probably use around a 40-45hz tone as that's where your excursion maximum should be with a box like that. If you have both tones, try each and see which moves more, if not, then pick one shouldn't be too different. If you have a SSF I'd sit it around 30hz. HPF at 80. If you don't have a SSF, then I'd also try playing a loud tone at 30 or below and make sure it's not bottoming out as that would be your other possible point of over excursion.

After that, try some heavy rap with your new gains and see if anything seems to be bottoming out on music. If you did find that around 40 is where you were bottoming out try a song like Airforces by Jeezy, followed up with something below tuning like White Girl, another Jeezy song most bassheads have lol. It should all looks good, worst case you'll have to back the gains off a tad. Setting gains this way will allow to be right at the edge of your equipment, so just use some common sense, if you going to really blast everything full bore all day every day, use a -3 tone. If you can use common sense and learn limits, I'd do it the way I just mentioned.

 

[Golitan11]

Thanks a lot T3mpest, really appreciated. Now I am wondering if there is any way to detect clipping without an oscilloscope or a DD-1. I found a thread on another forum but I don't know what to think about that, since most of the posts seem positive. Is it reliable? Here it is:

Stupid DMM Tricks -- measureing clipping - CarAudioForum.com

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

What's your box look like?

 

[Golitan11]

I just post the pictures of my build on this page.

 

[tommydh 10+ year member]

Im running a SD-2 10 on a RF 1000bd at 2Ohms I guarantee its louder than any L3 if you do every thing right you shouldnr hear it much outside of car unless windows down. I run my HU at-6 to-10 on the sub out so if your at0 on yours somewhere your killing the setup. check if your boost knob is a) plugged in b) if in turned up

 

[Wingman0121 10+ year member]

From a hardware point of view, the SA12 is vastly superior to the L3. I've used just about every single woofer that Kicker put out and the entry-level L3 isn't really in the same class as the SA12. You sure you have everything installed and set correctly?

 

[Golitan11]

Im running a SD-2 10 on a RF 1000bd at 2Ohms I guarantee its louder than any L3 if you do every thing right you shouldnr hear it much outside of car unless windows down. I run my HU at-6 to-10 on the sub out so if your at0 on yours somewhere your killing the setup. check if your boost knob is a) plugged in b) if in turned up

-6 to -10?? WTF you don't get bass AT ALL at those settings. Even sometimes I run it at +6 (which is the maximum and it is still clean).

 

[armykyle1 10+ year member]

I saw this soup sandwich on SMD....

 

[tommydh 10+ year member]

-6 to -10?? WTF you don't get bass AT ALL at those settings. Even sometimes I run it at +6 (which is the maximum and it is still clean).

I forgot im using a DEH-80PRS I get plenty of bass at that setting. My gain is set around half on amp if that high and i am plenty satisfied with output. If I use auto EQ its at -15 or lower I have gone as high as 0 but no need to unless I'm showing someone that I'm not as loud as I can be wile tere maxed out and my voilume stays around 40-45

 

[tommydh 10+ year member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjL8B65Mj94DH audio 2 SD-2 in a mini cooper on old amp. I believe the settings are the same i use now I think i get bass

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

-6 to -10?? WTF you don't get bass AT ALL at those settings. Even sometimes I run it at +6 (which is the maximum and it is still clean).

sometimes when everything else in your system is set up correctly as best as it can do, you'll find out the thing holding you back is a good signal input from a quality built headunit, 4 volt pre-outs dont mean too much nowadays since many sub 100$(amazon) head units list 4 volt preouts.

 

[Wingman0121 10+ year member]

sometimes when everything else in your system is set up correctly as best as it can do, you'll find out the thing holding you back is a good signal input from a quality built headunit, 4 volt pre-outs dont mean too much nowadays since many sub 100$(amazon) head units list 4 volt preouts.

Yeah but keep in mind that there's no law saying manufactures can't lie about preamp output voltages, there's no way to tell unless you have a scope and the knowledge to use it. My experience is that the cheaper you go the less reliable the factory spec gets, kinda like how junk amps have "5000 watts" slapped on the case but it only makes like 400 watts, but newbies wouldn't know the difference.