Sub started smoking?

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

1) Is it okay to overpower a sub? Everyone had always told me it was a great idea to overpower subs and that 1150w would never hurt a 1000w sub.

A "1000W" sub can handle probably double that or more for very short periods of time depending on box and frequency....the key being FOR VERY SHORT PERIODS OF TIME. As you allready said for 5 minutes it'll take your amp full throttle. For about the third time here the MMats amps are probably under-rated and it likely is capable of quite a bit more power.

2) If my amp is only 1150w RMS isn't that going to be the most power it puts out regardless of how high I turn the gain on the amp or headunit volume? So even if I have the volume at max and gain at max, the amp will only put out 1150w correct? If not...how does it work..?

For the 4th time here, that Mmats amp can probably put out 10-20% over its "rated" 1150W of relatively clean signal. If you overdrive it the signal will become a big fat square wave which although is the same power in the Voltage * Current sense, the effective heat generated and not properly dissipated by cone movement is as someone else said equivelant to possibly double the 1150W you think you're giving it.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

1) Is it okay to overpower a sub? Everyone had always told me it was a great idea to overpower subs and that 1150w would never hurt a 1000w sub.2) If my amp is only 1150w RMS isn't that going to be the most power it puts out regardless of how high I turn the gain on the amp or headunit volume? So even if I have the volume at max and gain at max, the amp will only put out 1150w correct? If not...how does it work..?

Is it okay to increase the horsepower of your engine without upgrading the transmission? Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on the engine in question, the tranny, the validity of product specs, how much of a HP increase is achieved, how often you actually put all that HP to the pavement, etc. Right? Same thing with your question #1. There is no simple yes or no answer, it depends on many factors.

The terms 'overpowering' and 'underpowering' are inherently misleading. If we were to use the term literally and correctly, no, its never okay to 'overpower' your speakers, because by definition, overpowering them means giving them too much power. In reality, people just mean can I hook an amp rated for more power to a speaker rated for less. This doesn't even guarantee the large amp will ever be allowed to output its full potential, thereby never 'overpowering' the speaker. The term 'underpowering' is misleading in that it implies a situation in which a mistake is or has been made. If we used the term literally and correctly, you are not using enough power, just like undershooting the hoop in basketball or under-compensating for something means you missed your window of acceptability. In reality, the term is meant to describe a situation in which the sub is powered by an amp whose specs suggest its output is greater than the specs of the sub. Again, both these situations are highly dependent on the validity of the specs, product installation, and even listener preference.

Somehow the popular use of both terms has become flipped. Overpowering is good, and underpowering is dangerous. Silly misunderstandings of the complexities of the situation, in order the simplify the solution down into bite-sized pieces that are easy to swallow. Unfortunately, something was lost in translation and now both terms are almost universally used incorrectly. The truth is you can NEVER blow a speaker by underpowering it. The way you blow speakers are by overpowering them. What exactly becomes too much power is the tricky part.

Okay, now for your second question. Incorrect, just because an amp is rated for a certain power output does not mean its impossible to surpass that output. For one, many companies these days intentionally rate their amps artificially low by a small percentage, to give the illusion of higher quality (oooooo its underrated, it must be nice). Also, as someone else said above, severe clipping can increase amplifier output by a factor of double or more, in the form of distortion. It creates a secondary problem of decreasing cone motion (cone stops twice per cycle, at every flat on the waveform), and since cone motion is the largest part of the speaker's ability to cool itself, by pumping cold air through the motor, this makes the speaker that much more sensitive to being overpowered and failing. Clipping, a squared wave, causes a one-two punch of making the sub easier to fail thermally, while also increasing the power output of the amp (and thus heat created in the sub) by potential double or more. Knowing this, you can imagine how easy it is to blow a speaker you thought was relatively safe, even with mild to moderate clipping.

An Fi Q should be able to handle a clean 1150 watts without a problem.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Holy **** that was longer than I planned.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

Holy **** that was longer than I planned.

too many words, brah.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

too many words, brah.

**** aint gonna overcomplicate itself, brah.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

**** aint gonna overcomplicate itself, brah.

ya gotta cater to us not so smart people mang //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[edavis.j 10+ year member]

alright, thank you guys for all the help, i'm slowly learning it...

now for what I should do to fix my problem...since apparantly I guess where I like to listen to my music is my amp pushing full power, I guess I need to get a new sub? if I were to get a new sub, what kinda wattage should I get? 1200w rms?

how much would it cost to get my fi fixed? I really liked the fi, the sound quality was amazing...if I could get another 12" Fi that fits well in a 2.0cu ft @ 32 hz box...but has a higher rms wattage, I'd love that...but I'm open to all suggestions since you guys are the experts...

thanks again

 

[Dizzzle 10+ year member]

The amp doesn't have bass boost...well iim gonna get the first fixed and keep the first and new box...but you're saying I need to get a weaker amp?

Dude, dont get a cheaper, or less wattage amp...

You amp is either putting dirty power out, causing the clipping.. Or you using a remote gain and its clipping.. Post pictures of your amp settings please?

Dont worry about the power because Im almost sure that the mmat or w/e you have is probably not doing its rated power.

 

[edavis.j 10+ year member]

Well...there's only two things I can change on my amp.

Frequency + Gain

Frequency can be set between 70Hz and 250Hz, I have it at 70Hz, and Gain, 0-100%, and it's at maybe like 0 or 2%

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well...there's only two things I can change on my amp.
Frequency + Gain

Frequency can be set between 70Hz and 250Hz, I have it at 70Hz, and Gain, 0-100%, and it's at maybe like 0 or 2%

Your gain is all the way down and you burned up a Q with that amp? I think you might be mistaken and its almost all the way up. Read the tutorial on amplifier gain settings.

 

[edavis.j 10+ year member]

Lol. I may be stupid with the **** but, when I have the music playing, and I turn it to the right and the bass gets louder, the gain is going up, when I turn it left, and the bass goes down, the gain is going down, and it's ALL the way left.

 

[edavis.j 10+ year member]

I can get access to an oscope and I'm pretty good with using them, just what am I going to be connecting the channels to...I looked at the gain setting tutorial and it's not really a tutorial, it's pages and pages of people answering questions about gain, but not really a tutorial on how to properly set it.

i would also like to mess with the oscope to make sure I am not clipping, though like I said, i'm not sure what I would be checking, like would I be...

hooking one channel up to the rca inputs of the amp and one channel up to the speaker outputs of the amp? then making sure they're getting the same voltage readings?

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

Youre just throwing too much juice. I turn mine up loud for short periods of tiem, if it gets a little smelly i remember where it was and then I dont do it anymore. Just turn your gains down or dont wang it so hard. Get a PSI recone, itl do about 1500 and that should be fine if you dont clip

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I can get access to an oscope and I'm pretty good with using them, just what am I going to be connecting the channels to...I looked at the gain setting tutorial and it's not really a tutorial, it's pages and pages of people answering questions about gain, but not really a tutorial on how to properly set it.
i would also like to mess with the oscope to make sure I am not clipping, though like I said, i'm not sure what I would be checking, like would I be...

hooking one channel up to the rca inputs of the amp and one channel up to the speaker outputs of the amp? then making sure they're getting the same voltage readings?

Download some test tones. Attatch the scope to the RCA outs that go into your amp. Turn the volume up until you see the top of the nice round waves "clip" off. It'll be really obvious (I'll assume you can get the waves to stand still on an o-scope or can find someone to help). Once the top of the waveform begins to flatten out you know that's the max you ever want to turn your HU up to. Next connect it to your amp (with it loaded down with speaker) and do the same thing adjusting your amp's gain up to where the waveform starts to flatten out at the peaks. I'd reccomend doing it on the amp at a few different frequencies (30hz to 70hz at 5hz incriments) since the resistance of the sub (hence power from the amp) changes with frequency.

After you've done this you can possibly juice things up a touch more if you have music with weak recording levels, but you have a better idea of the limits of your clean power.

Still turn on a 100W lightbulb for 20 minutes and put your hand on it. Now picture that X10. 1000W is a LOT of power/heat.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Lol. I may be stupid with the **** but, when I have the music playing, and I turn it to the right and the bass gets louder, the gain is going up, when I turn it left, and the bass goes down, the gain is going down, and it's ALL the way left.

I didnt mean to imply you were stupid, people get the gain settings backwards all the time. Most gain knobs are labeled with the voltage input, so the larger the number, the lower you are adjusting the gain. Since people are use to larger numbers meaning higher output (like a volume indicator), gains get set 'backwards' a lot.

Sounds like you didnt have it backwards though. But that leaves me confused, that Q should have been able to handle that many watts without any serious problems. Perhaps low system voltage lead to clipping then. Its also possible your signal source can drive your amp into clipping even with the lowest possible gain setting, which would mean you would need to further minimize output with your volume knob.