SQ..what is it?

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

How does one measure this "tonal accuracy" and when is it right?

When the green light blinks on the Golden Ears meter. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Didn't we just have a thread discussing this a few days ago?

 

[bikinpunk 10+ year member]

For the most part, yes, it's subjective, but...
There are boundries that are outside of "subjective". There is objective good and bad "SQ".

That is why "refrence" material is so important. A recording of a chello solo, should sound like a chello. A piano solo should sound like a piano. Of course pianos can sound different, especially when recorded in different ways in different rooms. High quality refrence recordings reveal flaws in even the best systems and rooms. That is why we use them to test systems.

George Winston at Carnigee Hall should sound like a great piano in a nice room. Yo-Yo ma in the studio should sound like a great chello sitting in front of you. Etta James should sound like she's singing in your face. If it's boomy, tinny or muddy, it's your system.

Steely Dan is a popular choice for sound system checks, not because we like Steely Dan, but because his recordings are very high quality with clean clear instruments (especially drums).

If you can make these kinds of recordings sound good on your system, with minor variation, then your favorite tracks of Slayer or Tupac will jump out at you with realism and clarity you didn't know was there.

A little bright or bass heavy can be subjective taste, but clarity is clarity.

And that's exactly why I said 'for the most part'. I believe there are constraints that should be met a minimum.

To me, these are image and staging. You can watch live performances and use those to verify staging and imaging. Focus is another bit hitter, imo.

Once you step outside of these 'technical' aspects, I believe you have a lot of leeway, and unfortunately that's often used by people as a crutch to not pursue or simply to call their setup an 'SQ' setup.

There's a whole lot of gray area here. It's really hard not to cut off your own toes when you argue for the side that I argue for. I find it very hard not to contradict myself when these arguments arise simply because what I know to be 'SQ' by competition standards, aren't really fully important to me as some other aspects. Beyond that, you really do have a lot of tradeoffs, ime.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

SQ is not subjective. Is accuracy subjective? No, its not. So if you dont define sound quality as accuracy to the original recording, how do you define it? If SQ is subjective, we might as well stop using the term altogether.

This discussion always boils down to the same thing.

 

[MegaloJntariac 10+ year member]

I am the definition of SQ.

Ask any SQer, any real SQer. My car sounds great. I got Time Alignment for blood and an EQ for Brains. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif 2/0awg penis means nothing.

As far as SQ goes. On my priority list, I tend to put staging at the top. For me as soon as I get a decent staging I can generally fix all the tonality issues much easier. Without correct staging and you start playing with the eq, then try to fix the stage, which is basically fixing a phase issue. Your EQ settings get ruined anyways and you would have to redo them.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

There is no good fix for poor speaker placement. No, not even time alignment. So, get your speaker placement correct, and everything else will fall into place easier.

I cant believe Im getting sucked into this discussion. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[bigaudiofanati2 10+ year member]

I see thread after thread about "wanting a SQ this or SQ that" I am curious to see how some of you define SQ setup. Now I know there a lot of intelligent people on here, but thats not my point. Maybe something might come out of this thread to help some of the guys that never have heard a true SQ car.

The real definition is.

To reproduce the music in it's original format as it was originally recorded and produced. Not all this bass this and bass that crap.

 

[MegaloJntariac 10+ year member]

There is no good fix for poor speaker placement. No, not even time alignment. So, get your speaker placement correct, and everything else will fall into place easier.
I cant believe Im getting sucked into this discussion. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Yea, I thought my post implied that. :thumbs up: I agree.

 

[bikinpunk 10+ year member]

SQ is not subjective. Is accuracy subjective? No, its not. So if you dont define sound quality as accuracy to the original recording, how do you define it? If SQ is subjective, we might as well stop using the term altogether.
This discussion always boils down to the same thing.

Be sure to re-read my thread and not nit-pick at a single sentence. Then you'll understand where I'm coming from.

I'm with you, but I also tend to waiver a bit. Again, re-read my post. I have pretty much answered your post already.

Essentially, your reply runs us right back into the question again. How are you defining what you call 'sq'? This thread can go on and on. At some point you have to define it, but give some leeway. Otherwise, the way you (whoever you are) defines the term can be too stringent or too loose.

... and thus the circle continues ...

 

[gunz4me2 10+ year member]

Hell, I thought most on this forum defined Ess Que as spending 90% or more of their budget on subwoofers with 3,500 watts RMS or more to drive them while running their stock speakers off of head unit power. I learn something new about this forum every day.

 

[thehardknoxlife 10+ year member]

I think listening to live (especially unamplified) music is a key to understanding SQ in a stereo.

This^^^. Trying to replicate the sound of real instruments as you hear them in person.Which is next to impossible to do in a car. Unless you have deep pockets and a lot of time. I have neither so I gave up on the SQ side some time ago. Well in a car environment anyway. I stick to the budget stuff.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

"SQ" is 100% in your head. There's nothing on/in/around sound waves in the air that gives any information what so ever as to if it sounds "good" or "bad." TImbre defines all.

Quality is quality. It is absolute.

Instead of "SQ" which is sooooo 2008, lets call it "ST" for "sweet timbre." //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Be sure to re-read my thread and not nit-pick at a single sentence. Then you'll understand where I'm coming from.
I'm with you, but I also tend to waiver a bit. Again, re-read my post. I have pretty much answered your post already.

Essentially, your reply runs us right back into the question again. How are you defining what you call 'sq'? This thread can go on and on. At some point you have to define it, but give some leeway. Otherwise, the way you (whoever you are) defines the term can be too stringent or too loose.

... and thus the circle continues ...

I stopped reading your post after you said SQ is subjective, tbh. I dont see how you could say that, and then agree with what I said. Unless you contradict yourself, which I dont plan to support or refute. Check my reply in last week's version of this thread if you want more in depth opinion from me. I dont mean to sound crass, but I dont see a point in discussing something that's already decided to be circular logic. Ive been down that road far too many times to have much interest in it any more.

 

[terra 5,000+ posts]

SQ is having the front speakers keep up with my 160dbs

x23423415123

 

[LaserRed38 10+ year member]

I understand that there are pre-defined definition of SQ. I've found myself losing interest in listening to other people's cars at meets, though. I think I've heard enough to know what I'm aiming for in my system. I know I listen to any music I can find and I want it ALL to sound good.