Speaker size for ear moving midbass?

[Oraclem19]

Trying to give an equal fade or some emphasis to the lower tones of the hearing range in my stage (33-150/200hz) and have so far been able to do a decent job of the lower ranges(33-50 hz) but am struggling to keep the pressure there with 45-150 hz.

Still working with unsealed factory doors.

Is a good 6.5 in a deadened, polyfilled or inuslated, sealed door the end all solution to loud mid-midlow bass?

Or could a 8 modified into these positions or added as a sealed attachment to a sub box a better idea?

Could it almost be considered to use a high-er Fs 10" in a sealed box/high port Fs box to get these ranges taken care of on top of the sub-stage?

Could likely find a solution to this with lots of research and trial and error, that would need a lot of funds that I do not currently have at this time, and my car sound is lacking.

I could be overlooking a lot of box options for 12"s and 10"s or even 8"s like the SA-8, and not even need to sacrifice midrange stage to get this balanced. Any help from the practiced of this forum would be much appreciated, as would any other advice.

Click to read more...

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Start by sealing and deadening the doors and working on reducing cancellation as much as possible with a good set of 6.5s.

What's your sub stage like? Unless its something crazy, that should keep up fine.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

What do you have now for your subwoofer setup? What's the vehicle?

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

Start by sealing and deadening the doors and working on reducing cancellation as much as possible with a good set of 6.5s.
What's your sub stage like? Unless its something crazy, that should keep up fine.

Agreed. Deadened doors with a nice set of mids will do it.

Ann 8 would be nice if your were willing to modify.

But a Nice set of 6.5 should so it.

Check out exodus anarchy at diycable.com, there are very nice.

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

But I don't know how you plan to get 45hz out if a mid

 

[Oraclem19]

the 45-60/70 is moreso me having problems with substage being balanced all the way through the range, upwards of that is the door problems.

Waiting on Z.4 or the new IA 4" line, considering a Reign in the meantime. Came up from dual 10 kicker, dual 10 Pioneer champion, 12 AP12, to the Pioneer Champion Pro. Figured I should make the jump to something high in quality on sub and not take chances between those 12s and getting a proper 12.

MD2D to power until I break 2k. Guessing amping, sealing, and deadening door speakers should take care of the problem. Concerned the area in rear seat will be lacking thud and sq on the midbass range with only having the door speakers producing it. I may be flawed from lack of experience here.

Slow build,

These CDT 6.5s. popular Pioneer 6.5s, Daytona reference 6.5s or RE cs 6.5s looking like my best shot at achieving this in one go? Don't want a graveyard of 6.5s like I have subs, funds simply won't allow.

Also sphere the tweeters correct? Or spare the tweeters, not sure how much of the range these can cover and I have been tweeterless for some time.

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

I understand the time and funds problem, most of us have the same problems.

CDT I hear has great speakers. @trumpet;
I hear Good about Dayton also, though I can't comment on their midbass output.

I can recommend PHD. I have a set of them and midbass is phenomenal. Very punchy, but also full and detailed. They get loud too.
PHD - Speakers - Series FB -

Also check out those exodus anarchy I mentioned.
DIYCable.com

And yes, you will want a tweeter set to accompany the mids.

What is your budget?

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

My best midbass to date has come from my Peerless Exclusive HDS Nomex mids.

I had a lot of effort into that install though. Sealed doors, solid baffles, good deadening, and most time consumingly, time aligned the midbass drivers with the subs. It actually got to the point where I had to tone down the midbass area on my EQ but never was the location of the midbass misconceived for being behind me. Not once did u actually listen to a song and think about the sub being behind you. It was either midbass in front of you, or really low bass all around you.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

If you just want a budget component set, go Pioneer D series or Image Dynamics CTX.

Both gave me awesome midbass. Right now I have the CTXs with little door treatment...only a solid baffle...and the midbass stays up front with a little level matching and EQ work.

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

My best midbass to date has come from my Peerless Exclusive HDS Nomex mids.
I had a lot of effort into that install though. Sealed doors, solid baffles, good deadening, and most time consumingly, time aligned the midbass drivers with the subs. It actually got to the point where I had to tone down the midbass area on my EQ but never was the location of the midbass misconceived for being behind me. Not once did u actually listen to a song and think about the sub being behind you. It was either midbass in front of you, or really low bass all around you.

I need to ta my mids and subs, just don't have the processing for it. Why was it time consuming?

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

I need to ta my mids and subs, just don't have the processing for it. Why was it time consuming?

I'm a perfectionist so I wouldn't stop until I felt it was perfect.

Getting into the general area takes no time. Just hold the TA button increasing the delay until the bass jumps up front.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

You'll get better results by taking a more moderate approach and stop expecting your door speakers to play down to bass frequencies. You don't need a 6.5" woofer to play into subwoofer territory to get strong midbass. These should be your priorities:

• Sound deadening with vibration damper - any good CLD damper product applied to the flat surfaces
  
• Vibration damping with closed cell foam - good CCF is great to have around your garage for when you find panels rattling against each other. Place them between parts that are touching.
  
• Block sound from coming through the door. On top of the CCF you can attach a layer of mass loaded vinyl. Welcome to Sound Deadener Showdown | Sound Deadener Showdown
  
• Build a gasket around the speaker to seal it against the door panel. This focuses the energy through the grille.
  
• Look up keep_hope_alive 's build log for his Accord to see how he added fiberglass insulation inside his doors. I've been meaning to do this for months and it seems to get good results every time.
  

Your speaker won't play as well as it can if you don't treat the door more like a speaker enclosure. It will never actually seal up like a speaker box, but I listed proven techniques that can work wonders.

A good set of speakers and an amp are things I can get you, but the sound deadening treatments are going to take some real effort on your part.

 

[Oraclem19]

So as far as doing the doors, everything that I have seen done, is a good thing to do, polyfil-fiberglass, improve gasket quality(have done, not well though), deaden, MLV on inside of door ontop of CLD, CLD then MLV then CCF on door panel on the interior side, get an eq (hopefully with time correction) and add .7~ ms delay, pick a quality set of components and let er rip?

For correction the part about 45hz was pertaining to the fact that the boxes I can build right now are BOOMINGLY loud 33-45 hz, but after that it starts to lose some of the feeling and becomes more sound from 45-80 hz. Only need these components to get 80- lowpass filter. The sub box problem is a different thread though.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

SPL increases with driver's total air displacement potential. The displacement is cone area times xmax travel of the woofer. So even a 6.5 inch speaker could displace a lot of air with high enough xmax. However, with too much travel the voice coil can hit the back plate, and the speaker bottoms out. So if the suspension is too "loose" your speaker bottoms out, but if it is too stiff, the bass output will severely roll off at lower frequencies. Normally, very low resonance frequency also is a good indication of driver's ability to play low well.

If you want something affordable, look at Massive Audio CK6 components. The woofers supposedly have very good bass potential, as you can also verify from high xmax and low resonance frequency as published in their T/S parameters (one of the few car speakers that gives T/S parameters in documentation). Overall good woofers covering frequencies up to 3KHz. Many find the tweeters a bit harsh and bright though. If you want something more expensive, consider Hybrid Audio Clarus. These have good bass potential, but what makes them so expensive is also the midrange capability resulting in smooth flat frequency response from 50HZ to something like 5KHz.

Having said that, I would have preferred a 2-way or 3-way active speaker system employing a 6x9 or 8 inch midbass. If well executed, the result is often cleaner tighter, stronger and more up front sounding midbass. This of course is more expensive and complex to setup, so my second choice would be a high quality 2-way speaker system using 6x9 mids, like Image Dynamics XS or Hybrid Audio Imagine.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

I still don't understand why you can't get any midbass out of your subwoofer. I think if you changed your sub or the box you would have so much kick in the midbass you wouldn't know what to do. I have no problems with my subwoofer thumping hard on kick drums in rock and metal. I actually tune the 60-90 Hz region down a bit because it's too intense to sound natural, and this is with a vented enclosure. My sub/midbass crossover is 80 Hz 24 dB/octave.