you are welcome to make one.
Rudeboy did that on his own withthout commerical help.
Rudeboy did that on his own withthout commerical help.
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
This has all been addressed before, here, by the author. The heat test was to simulate heat stress over time. Heat WILL degrade the material over time. more time, or heat, will increase the speed of the process. Instead of placing the material in his over at a lower temp for months, he did the logical thing.
As for hanging weights, yes you nailed it, Don (the author) expects people are hanging weights from their mat. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif Dude, same as above, to simulate time. The mats that fail the weight test sooner would appear to have a weaker adhesive, I see no issue with the test.
As said above, if you would like to perform tests that live up to your standards of closer to real-world standards, be our guest. Post your results. but I suspect your results will parallel Don's, and you'll turn into a commercial for secondSkin as well. Or, should he have left out SS's results for fear of its success looking as you describe? You really pose no credible arguement against the test, you just dont seem to like the results.
02parkave
5,000+ posts
Banned
or are you one of the idiot ed fanboys that thinks regal will do a halfway decent job on his little retard test? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
These are all reasonable questions. I am working on an updated and expanded version, but it is difficult to find the time. I am actually quite close. There will be more products in the new version, but since in almost every case I have had to purchase samples to test myself some will still be missing. This is purely a hobby and you can't imagine how much time gets chewed up just doing these rudimentary tests and writing them up. I also get several questions each day and I do my best to answer them all.
The heat tests really started as a way to tell asphalt from butyl. When I first started with SDS, there was a lot of confusion in the market - much of it intentionally generated by the sellers of asphalt products. Asphalt melts at 180°F. While it is tough to get the air inside a car to that temperature, it isn't all that tough to get the sheet metal, where the deadener is actually mounted, that hot. For most applications, a deadener that will survive my tests at 230°F and above should be fine. An interesting characteristic of butyl is that the higher the quality, the higher the heat tolerance. Coincidentally, the higher the quality, the better it functions as a vibration damper. High temperature testing is an indirect way to determine product effectiveness. As an added benefit, heat testing is exactly what the manufacturers do to test the long term stability of the product.
Similarly, manufacturers do hang weights off of the material to test adhesive strength. It is the only reasonable way to test and compare adhesive bond strength. It's also interesting to note that the better the butyl, the more its bond strength increases over time - relative to the initial bond strength. These tests provide useful information and will be in the new version.
So what's changed since the last version? I've tested Cascade VB-Max and it is excellent. I've tested Hushmat and the adhesive is very good but the foil is thinner than I'd like to see in a premium brand. A new Internet brand called Sound Destroyer has appeared. It claims to be butyl but it is asphalt.
Not much has changed among the products I tested.. Elemental Designs finally moved away form asphalt to butyl (my battles with them are almost legendary //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif). Unfortunately, they also moved from an aluminum foil facing to a lightweight plastic that is MUCH less effective and should be avoided. Their new v1² is the first butyl mat I have ever seen that failed in use. Adhesive bond tests show a very weak adhesive and the plastic facing has a very strong inherent curl that seems to cause the stuff to peel itself off when it gets hot.
That's pretty much all that has changed. I'll be covering liquids in the next version. One of the reasons I haven't busted a gut getting the new one out is that it just isn't as urgent as it used to be. People know the difference between asphalt and butyl (at least they know that they want butyl). There just aren't that many FatMat vs Dynamat Xtreme threads popping up. It's a testament to the maturity of the market that the good players I identified in the last version are still around.
tinomen I've just looked at your other posts since you signed up yesterday and it looks to me like you are the Cascade rep who has been making the rounds. You should be pleased with my post above, but it is considered really poor form for a sales rep to masquerade as an unaffiliated user while giving "unbiased" advice. You will do much better being straight forward and identifying yourself - that way people will be able to place your advice in context and will know to contact you when they have CAE related questions.
Anthony Collova
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Tinomen
I hope that you stick around a while and learn how to play nice. You might know a lot about the industry; you may have a lot to offer, but so far your introduction is less than impressive.
Your opening post and your closing post are very contradictive of one another.
On the one hand you are an innocent anonymous forum member asking decently ignorant yet ambitious questions while attempting to discredit the sound deadener show down and to a smaller degree, Second Skin, while on the other hand you admit that you are an employee of CAE stepping up with honesty and a helpful attitude. To hide behind the phrase:
is really insulting the intelligence of the forum members. Expecting us to believe that you honestly believe that your actions were on the up and up is hardly a request worth wasting our time on.
This is nearly the same game you played in this thread on the Second Skin forum and again in this thread where you innocently ask about Cascade products with the utmost inquisitive naivety while disguising yourself as a regular forum member.
From my years of screwing up publicly all over the forums, I can honestly tell you that it is always best to fully disclose your identity and motives on these boards.
Regardless of what forum you are on, spamming and trolling is no way to market your sound deadening, products.
From what I have read on the Second Skin forum, you are decently knowledgeable about noise heat and vibration control products.
In time you could be a tremendous asset to the online community, but as of now it is hard for me to see.
I only hope that you are in fact only an employee of CAE and not the owner Doug Moir. I have heard great things about him and his wife and would hate to find out that he has to resort to such marketing tactics.
(Sorry for the rant guys)
ANT
http://www.secondskinaudio.com
bigbirney420
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
Just buy from Raamaudio, no sneaky bullshit, just affordable, straight forward sales, customer service and products.
Anthony Collova
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Yup.
Awesome products and service from rick at Rammat
ANT
I agree completely with ANT on this one. Forum trickeration from a business is a no no. Second skin products are very nice and I will be installing alot of them very shortly in my current build.
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
In trying to make your competition look bad, you just gave your own company a serious black eye here.
Indeed.
The option of sticking around isn't up to him //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
DjiNN
10+ year member
Posts but still a NooB
I dunno man, I really liked that spectrum stuff. It smelled good too...or maybe I am //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif
But anyway, I thought it was odd how when I put it over the Rammat, it didn't make it heavier or stronger but reduced roadnoise by magic I guess
But anyway, I thought it was odd how when I put it over the Rammat, it didn't make it heavier or stronger but reduced roadnoise by magic I guess
iagrdshaka
5,000+ posts
Down with jimmy hats
Anthony Collova
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Man Squeak!
Didn't realize you were a mod..
Been a while since I paid attention to this forum as much as I should
Too bad you like Rammat better than Second Skin!
I'd send you a boat load of Damplifier Pro in exchange for some ban favors!!
ANT *dripping with ironic sarcasm
Didn't realize you were a mod..
Been a while since I paid attention to this forum as much as I should
Too bad you like Rammat better than Second Skin!
I'd send you a boat load of Damplifier Pro in exchange for some ban favors!!
ANT *dripping with ironic sarcasm
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