RE SX 12 powered by HIfonics Zeus VII
- Thread starter Jray05stang
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- Thread Starter
- #2
I just mainly want to make sure the amp will be running enough juice to the sub so as not to damage it by underpowering it. Anyone got info?
psych0ticnemes1
5,000+ posts
Psych0tic Customs
Well, for one, you can't hurt a sub my underpowering it. Two, you need to find out what impedance the subwoofer is... most likely dual 2 unless it is custom.
Three... do some research by searching and reading the stickies. It sounds like you have a lot to learn before spending a lot of money on audio that you don't know how to use properly. You will be happier in the long run.
Three... do some research by searching and reading the stickies. It sounds like you have a lot to learn before spending a lot of money on audio that you don't know how to use properly. You will be happier in the long run.
- Thread Starter
- #4
I have searched around alot but its alot to take in... I have heard from multiple sources that a sub could be damaged by running it underpowered for too long... Thats where I was getting that from... The amp is bridged to 4 ohm and the subs impedance is dual 2... The amp is old for sure and everything I read about it points towards it will power the RE SX 12 very well... I just needed some further advice... Mainly because the amp specs say 900 rms bridged at 4 ohms but from my reading thats underrated. Thanks.
The Zeus will be plenty of power. It was/is a strong amp.
psych0ticnemes1
5,000+ posts
Psych0tic Customs
Just set your gain correctly and you'll never damage a sub unless you run a ridiculous amount of power to it.
hazardous0388
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
youll damage a speaker more by underpowering it then by a more powerful Cleaner signal, either way the zeus will be fine.
- Thread Starter
- #8
Thanks alot guys all I needed to know! Sub and amp are being installed now... hoping for the best!
you can hurt a sub by underpowering it with a clipped signal meaning u have your amp set incorrectly
if u send it a clean signal it will not hurt it, read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)
if the link doesnt work read here
[edit] Overview of clipping
When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than it can support, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal will be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping." The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a distorted waveform.
Many electric guitar players will intentionally overdrive their guitar amplifiers to cause clipping in order to get a desired sound (see guitar distortion).
All amplifiers have Voltage and Current limits. Some amplifiers will use creative techniques to increase these limits or decrease them as needed. If an amplifier needs to output 20V, but is limited to +10V to -10V, then the amplifier will output +10V. It is best not to speak of a power limit outside of specific applications where the amplifier has an output impedance nearly equal to the load. For instance, a modern solid state amplifier may achieve maximum power output into a load that is ten times smaller than it can thermally handle over a long period of time.
[edit] Effects of clipping
In power amplifiers, the signal from an amplifier operating in clipping has two characteristics that could damage a connected loudspeaker:
Because the clipped waveform has more area underneath it than the smaller unclipped waveform, the amplifier produces more power. This extra power can cause damage to any part of the loudspeaker, including the woofer, tweeter, or crossover, via overheating or overexcursion.
In the frequency domain, clipping produces strong harmonics in the high-frequency range. Extra high-frequency weighting of a signal is more likely to damage a tweeter than a signal that was not clipped. However most loudspeakers are designed to handle signals with abundant high frequencies, like cymbal crashes, which have a greater high-pitch frequency weighting than amplifier clipping could produce. Therefore damage attributable to this characteristic is rare.
Other effects of clipping include:
When applied to a musical signal, the clipping may prevent a note from decaying in a normal amount of time. This can cause rapidly played notes to blend together.
Music which is clipped experiences amplitude compression, whereby all notes begin to sound equally loud as loud notes are being clipped to the same output level as softer notes.
[edit] Digital clipping
This PCM waveform is clipped between the red linesMain article: saturation arithmetic
In digital signal processing, clipping occurs when the signal is restricted by the range of a chosen representation. For example in a system using 16-bit signed integers, 32767 is the largest positive value that can be represented, and if during processing the amplitude of the signal is doubled, sample values of 32000 should become 64000, but instead they are truncated to the maximum, 32767. Clipping is preferable to the alternative in digital systems — wrapping — which occurs if the digital hardware is allowed to "overflow", ignoring the most significant bits of the magnitude, and sometimes even the sign of the sample value, resulting in gross distortion of the signal.
[edit] Avoiding clipping
As seen on the oscilloscope, the wave resulting from the clipping is not smooth anymore and thus, pops can be heard. To avoid this, the overall level of a mix can be lowered, or a limiter can be used to dynamically bring the levels of the loud parts down (for example, kicks and snare drums).
It is not simple to eliminate all chance of clipping, as filtering can align various frequencies in such a way as to create excessive peak outputs. A highpass filter is one type of filter that can do this. The excessive peaks may become clipped even though the amplifier can play any single sine wave without clipping. As such, some audiophiles will buy amplifiers that are rated for power outputs over twice the speaker's ratings. They will then set the amplifier up with low gain, so that the amplifier does not overpower the speaker in the long run.
if u send it a clean signal it will not hurt it, read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)
if the link doesnt work read here
[edit] Overview of clipping
When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than it can support, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal will be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping." The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a distorted waveform.
Many electric guitar players will intentionally overdrive their guitar amplifiers to cause clipping in order to get a desired sound (see guitar distortion).
All amplifiers have Voltage and Current limits. Some amplifiers will use creative techniques to increase these limits or decrease them as needed. If an amplifier needs to output 20V, but is limited to +10V to -10V, then the amplifier will output +10V. It is best not to speak of a power limit outside of specific applications where the amplifier has an output impedance nearly equal to the load. For instance, a modern solid state amplifier may achieve maximum power output into a load that is ten times smaller than it can thermally handle over a long period of time.
[edit] Effects of clipping
In power amplifiers, the signal from an amplifier operating in clipping has two characteristics that could damage a connected loudspeaker:
Because the clipped waveform has more area underneath it than the smaller unclipped waveform, the amplifier produces more power. This extra power can cause damage to any part of the loudspeaker, including the woofer, tweeter, or crossover, via overheating or overexcursion.
In the frequency domain, clipping produces strong harmonics in the high-frequency range. Extra high-frequency weighting of a signal is more likely to damage a tweeter than a signal that was not clipped. However most loudspeakers are designed to handle signals with abundant high frequencies, like cymbal crashes, which have a greater high-pitch frequency weighting than amplifier clipping could produce. Therefore damage attributable to this characteristic is rare.
Other effects of clipping include:
When applied to a musical signal, the clipping may prevent a note from decaying in a normal amount of time. This can cause rapidly played notes to blend together.
Music which is clipped experiences amplitude compression, whereby all notes begin to sound equally loud as loud notes are being clipped to the same output level as softer notes.
[edit] Digital clipping
This PCM waveform is clipped between the red linesMain article: saturation arithmetic
In digital signal processing, clipping occurs when the signal is restricted by the range of a chosen representation. For example in a system using 16-bit signed integers, 32767 is the largest positive value that can be represented, and if during processing the amplitude of the signal is doubled, sample values of 32000 should become 64000, but instead they are truncated to the maximum, 32767. Clipping is preferable to the alternative in digital systems — wrapping — which occurs if the digital hardware is allowed to "overflow", ignoring the most significant bits of the magnitude, and sometimes even the sign of the sample value, resulting in gross distortion of the signal.
[edit] Avoiding clipping
As seen on the oscilloscope, the wave resulting from the clipping is not smooth anymore and thus, pops can be heard. To avoid this, the overall level of a mix can be lowered, or a limiter can be used to dynamically bring the levels of the loud parts down (for example, kicks and snare drums).
It is not simple to eliminate all chance of clipping, as filtering can align various frequencies in such a way as to create excessive peak outputs. A highpass filter is one type of filter that can do this. The excessive peaks may become clipped even though the amplifier can play any single sine wave without clipping. As such, some audiophiles will buy amplifiers that are rated for power outputs over twice the speaker's ratings. They will then set the amplifier up with low gain, so that the amplifier does not overpower the speaker in the long run.
- Thread Starter
- #10
So setting the gain correctly is essential... I know alot about clipping because I am a guitar player and prefer to use vacuum tube amps because of their clipping(distortion). So you do not want clipping on a car sub so you set your gain correctly to produce the cleanest signal?
- Thread Starter
- #12
Ah makes alot of sense... I dont know why every audio shop told me I would hurt the SX 12 by underpowering it... Then again they acted like they did not know squat about the Zeus VII... I dont even know anything about car audio and I know that amp is a gem... I think they were just trying to push the sale on the amps they were dealing...
mendon mafia
10+ year member
`94 caprice, 15" Fi BTL
most likely. all of the car stereo shopd in my local area are total rip offs, and i mean total rip offs. one wanted 270 for a pair of d3's lol. they all try to push their stuff they cant sell. rather than offering you the best value products for your application.
- Thread Starter
- #14
Ya one shop I went to recently they looked at the amp and then looked up the specs... They then pointed me towards a 10in kicker L7... They said the amp could not power any more than that... The next shop I went to said the amp would probably blow the kicker and pointed me towards the RE SX... He actually was the installer at the shop and not the salesman... They actually did not carry the RE's so I felt a little better about that...
hazardous0388
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
thats very good info to give him dadydolas. To the thread starter, you should really invest in a Digital Multimeter and an oscillioscope to set the gains properly to avoid clipping. Given a LITTLE bit of clipping usually won't harm the sub, it's best to do things properly. But the final judgement lays in the hands of the owner, in this case, you.
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