RE or ED??? Decisions, Decisions!!!

[PitySister 10+ year member]

wasn't my intention.. just showing that we were in the position to know what really went on... I know that you and Ben made peace of sorts.. shame that can't happen here...
Loyd L.

i forgive you sweetie.....

didn't anybody find the panda bear thing funny??? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[josh99ta 10+ year member]

Let me preface this post by saying that I dont have any hard feelings towards anyone at or with eD save Ben. Ben is the one that has screwed up time and time again, none of you guys. You're just doing your jobs and thats fine, but be weary. It's happened time and time again. Ben Milne wont think twice about screwing you over if he'll profit from it. He may seem like a friend now, but watch yourself. Loyalty and friendship aren't strong suits of his.

Now, for those who doub the validity of all of this, I'll add in my .02 cents. I did get screwed over by eD I felt, but I kept it quiet, because I thought Ben was doing all he could, not the case though. Also the other people who got screwed over I consider friends, and it wasn't a one time thing, it was time and time again. For those that dont know about the Team Industry thing, for those that dont know about the inside information that some of us were privy to in the past, that doesn't matter. What matters are the facts....

1. Ben sold a bad design to make money. He cut corners for profit, and it came back to bite him. The buildhouse warned him what could happen, but he didn't care. He built it anyways.

2. A major issue I have, because it's just wrong if you have a conscience. Steve Ponte designed the A series from the ground up. Ben doesn't know speakers (or didn't then, and still has alot to learn) so he just made nice with the right people to take advantage of them. Ponte designed the sub, something that he should have been very well compensated for, and he didn't get a dime. I think his payoff was a free A, and thats it. Ben took advantage of him. That isn't any of anyone's business really and I'm not sticking up for Ponte because that was his decision, but where I'm from, friends dont treat friends like that. Just another example of Ben using people to make money.

3. All of the bad things were covered up. Ben used his "friendship" with everyone to keep the truth quiet. By this time I was on my way out of the "inner circle" so I was getting less and less inside info, but I still knew what was going on. On SIN under my user name my title says propaganda. As we all know thats when the gov't tells us what they want us to know and keeps alot of things quiet. Cover ups and such to keep it simple. On a smaller scale Ben was doing the same thing, so I felt it was pretty appropriate to throw it on there. Maybe be a reminder to everyone if they made the connection.

4. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Ben used far too many people and try to cut too many corners for profit. I'm glad it's coming back to bite him in the butt. Even with all this coming up, I'd imagine eD will still survive. I'd imagine Ben isn't saying anything because he can't. You can't defend against the truth. If he came and apologized now I'd question whether he really meant it or if he was really just doing it as a stunt to try to stop a dip in sales. Only time will tell the direction Ben decides to take. I truly hope Ben doesn't screw anyone else over. Those affiliated with eD, be careful. I know alot of you are good guys and I'd hate to see this happen again, but the facts are out there and the truth is ugly.

 

[josh99ta 10+ year member]

Ben is the single reason why I dont really feel comfortable being on the "inside" or any company again, and the reason I dont run products from low-key companies that I know the owners of in the ***** Am. I dont want any ties at all.

i forgive you sweetie.....

didn't anybody find the panda bear thing funny??? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

Not really. I'm not much comforted by thoughts of a panda bears privates, sorry man //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Also, I hope you understand where I'm coming from on this whole matter to. I know we dont talk anymore really, but dammit we had something real. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I know you know he brought this on himself though, it's just coming full circle. It's wrong what he did and no one should have to keep quiet about it, so I had to speak my piece. I am glad to hear things are rectified with Ben and yourself, and hope that he starts in on doing the same with others, and never making those same mistakes that caused all of this in the first place.

It's late, I dont feel like I'm making much sense in my last post or this one. I'm going to bed.

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

first time in history Gull.. I enjoyed your ramble //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Loyd L.

 

[marleyskater420 5,000+ posts]

Im just curious, and sorry to interject. But none of you thought any of this was fishy?

 

[josh99ta 10+ year member]

I'm not in bed, bad Josh...

We ALL knew it was fishy. Anyone who has gotten screwed by Ben would probably agree that things weren't right most of the time, but because Ben maintained the illusion of a real friendship, we kept quiet. I know in the case I was screwed (which ended up costing me about $550 and a situation that Ben made roughly $400 profit on) I knew it was messed up, but Ben kept assuring me that he was doing all he could, and since he was a "friend" I believed him. My mistake. This was before I knew what was going on with Loyd, the defective spider issues on the K series, or before he screwed over another one of my friends. When I got screwed out of $550 and Ben made $400 on my misfortune I pretty much cut ties. I still talked to Ben a little after that but eventually just stopped. After he made his profit off of me he never had any more time. We'd talk on AIM and he'd just sign off in the middle of a convo. I took it similar to hanging up on me if we were talking on the phone. He began just being generally short with me and thats when I realized he wasn't doing all he could, and that I got screwed. A life lesson learned I suppose. Nothing I could really say at that point though, because Ben had befriended more people that didnt want to believe their friend would do something like that. Many of those friends were mutual friends of mine so I just kept my mouth closed to avoid conflict. It's really nice it's all out there now though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Gives me a sort of closure on the money lost and the backstabbing and all.

Oh, and to keep it short, thanks Loyd //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Just trying to put the truth out there. It's been suppressed far too long.

 

[joshpoints 10+ year member]

I would just like to say that I thank you all for listing your experiences to help others make their decisions. It means a lot to me and I'm sure others. I also would like to say the master admin of this site is awesome for letting this thread stay.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

I'm not in bed, bad Josh...
We ALL knew it was fishy. Anyone who has gotten screwed by Ben would probably agree that things weren't right most of the time, but because Ben maintained the illusion of a real friendship, we kept quiet. I know in the case I was screwed (which ended up costing me about $550 and a situation that Ben made roughly $400 profit on) I knew it was messed up, but Ben kept assuring me that he was doing all he could, and since he was a "friend" I believed him. My mistake. This was before I knew what was going on with Loyd, the defective spider issues on the K series, or before he screwed over another one of my friends. When I got screwed out of $550 and Ben made $400 on my misfortune I pretty much cut ties. I still talked to Ben a little after that but eventually just stopped. After he made his profit off of me he never had any more time. We'd talk on AIM and he'd just sign off in the middle of a convo. I took it similar to hanging up on me if we were talking on the phone. He began just being generally short with me and thats when I realized he wasn't doing all he could, and that I got screwed. A life lesson learned I suppose. Nothing I could really say at that point though, because Ben had befriended more people that didnt want to believe their friend would do something like that. Many of those friends were mutual friends of mine so I just kept my mouth closed to avoid conflict. It's really nice it's all out there now though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Gives me a sort of closure on the money lost and the backstabbing and all.

Oh, and to keep it short, thanks Loyd //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Just trying to put the truth out there. It's been suppressed far too long.

Funny, it's been suggested that Ben is in fact 'too professional' to give this thread a view and share his thoughts...hmmm.....professional, eh?

If he ripped me off for $550 I would take the time out of my life to personally go to Idaho or wherever they are now (don't even remember anymore) and kick him straight in the nuts.

 

[josh99ta 10+ year member]

NOTE: I know I wasn't exactly right in all of this, and I've learned from my mistakes and moved on. But I still feel I got screwed over nonetheless. If there are things I did wrong in this, dont bother saying "well, you were wrong here and here" because I know where I messed up, and know that I was expecting some things to happen that aren't exactly right, but I wasn't exactly told the whole truth of this trade transaction, and was lied to as well, so take this for what its worth and leave it at that. No need to say I was wrong here or Ben was wrong there, just putting this out there for all to see.

The details of my issue......

Bought Sony C90 and 210EQ for $750 used in great shape. Used for three weeks, wanted to sell. Ben sees this as a great opportunity to make some money I suppose, so he offered a trade on an Avionixx 1000M. Ben had seen this stuff at MECA Finals just days earlier and knew it was in tip-top shape. Actual cost to Ben on the Avi 1000M wasn't probably more than $150-$200, so $750 worth of stuff for $200, Ben profits. But thats not the end. Ben gets the HU and EQ in December or January, and I get the runaround for quite a few months. It's always going to be ready in a week or two. This goes on for months and months and I get sick of it. I saw him sell the C90 and 210EQ on ebay for $550 so I tell him to send me $500 for a refund, keep $50 for himself, and whenever the amp is finally ready, just keep it and sell it as new (so that $50 I gave him off the refund would also net him a few more bucks when he went to sell it since they were listed at something like $1100 and Ben's sell price was going to be $650). That arrangement didn't seem to unreasonable since I had given Ben $750 worth of equiment and had nothing to show for it for about four months. But that wouldn't work according to Ben, so I waited, and finally I get the amp in May or June I believe, but that is only the beginning.

Avionixx 1000M I get is a prototype model, since the 1000M never hit full production. It comes taped up in a Tsunami box, the heatsink isn't even fully finished (no polished fins), and it even has a sticker on the bottom indicating that it was a prototype amp. Ben trys to tell me he had the Avionixx guys work it over a little and put the prototype sticker on there so it wouldn't be counted against me in competition. So now we want to try to give people an edge in competition do we Ben? Thats not sportsmanlike. Bad Ben.

Because of what Ben said, I dont want the amp in the car I'm going to be competiting in. I want a refund again, now because I didn't get what I was supposed to. All this was during the time that Ben had eD offering the 30 day satisfaction guaranteed warranty (yes, a satisfaction guarantee was on the table for a while). He could resell for $500 used and still be fine, but Ben claims he doesn't have any money, at all, period, and even if he did, it was a private transaction, not a transaction with eD, so no refund for me. He basically told me that I was stuck with the amp and to deal with it. I thought eD was about to go belly-up the way he made it sound, and I didn't want that to happen to my "friend," so I let up on asking for the refund. Ben claims to be broke, when I saw him sell the C90 and 210EQ for $550 on ebay long before I ever even got my 1000M. I've got eyes man. I'm suspicious and ask around, even talked with people who knew him that said he was doing just fine financially. He just didn't want to refund me for sending me an amp that was nothing like I was supposed to get. Ben didn't see it that way though, because that means he'd be out the chance to rip me off and make a bunch of money in the process.

Nobody would buy it, so I had to sell for a huge loss. I sold it for $300 shipped, and ended up with $275 in my pocket, no amp, HU, or EQ to show for any of it, and all that after basically paying out $750. Ben tried to make it out like I was getting a deal but once I added it all up I saw it differently. A loss of roughly $500 and 4-5 months with equipment owed to me is quite the deal isn't it? Ben paid between $150-$200 for the Avi 1000M, got it to me for my C90 and 210EQ, and then resold the stuff for $550 on ebay, netting himself about $400 give or take a little, keeping me ampless for months on end, all the while lying to me about being broke, not honoring the satisfaction guarantee, and sticking me with a proto amp that was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread.

Really a shame I didn't know more about this stuff at that time, and a shame that I let Ben and my so called friendship to blind me to the facts that were staring me right in the face. I thought I was lucky though, on the inside of a big company. I thought I was somebody important. Well I found out that was half true. I was important, because I had money, and that was something Ben wanted. He got what he wanted and that was that. Tough luck on my part.

 

[josh99ta 10+ year member]

My issue, along with the things Loyd talked about (selling a design known to be flawed), charging people well in advance and using that money to fullfil the money needed to complete the preorder (may not happen now, but it did in the early days), and the fact that he got over on a few friends of mine have turned me completely away from doing business with Ben Milne or anything he's associated with, and I'm not the only one who has steered clear of eD because of Ben's shady business ethics. Even some people not in "the know" could pick up on it and didn't buy anything. Bet they are sitting back laughing at how right their suspicions were right about now.

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

i guess that saying "you pay for what you get" doesnt apply to you:tomatofac .

 

[k-mart 10+ year member]

All I'm going to say is that I've experienced first hand that money is worth more than friendship in the eyes of some.

I don't really feel like going into it, but I got offended as well.

 

[RangerMan Premium Member]

Let me elaborate on the Team Industry deal. About a year and a half ago, Ben decided that he would "help" out certain competitors. We didn't have to run his products, but I felt that it was kind of encouraged. This was when I first got in to the competition scence, and I was blinded with joy that I was actually on a team. Loyd was the team leader, and I remember a few others, including josh99ta that were on the team. In the beginning, Ben seemed to be a very cool person, and I talked with him on AIM quite frequently. I bought a total of 5 drivers from them at "competitor's pricing." Anyway, the first two (12As) drivers that got here were broken. The frame was cracked in shipping. I asked Ben if I could send them back for new ones, but in a round about way, he told me that I'd have to pay to get them fixed. Then he told me that some Mr. Weld would fix it, so I dropped some on there. Soon after that, I began competiting with them, and actually loved them for a while. I set a state and world record in Regular Cab Truck with them. Soon after, I bought a Earthquake D2 from Chad Hines, and went to do some testing at his house with them. First burp that day...thwap! Cone broke away, and the piston beat the shit out of the cone...breaking the "indestructable" cone. Again...I contacted Ben, wanting to send the subs back, but again, it would cost me. Shortly after, the cone on the second one broke, so I bought a set of Ks. They broke... During this period of time, I experienced the same thing that Josh did. I'd contact him on AIM about the 12A problems, and he'd sign off. Finally, he just abandoned Team Industry all together after making a darn good profit off of some of us...lesson learned.

 

[TheVanMan 10+ year member]

Wow, if all of the above is true, all I got to say is that Ben is twofaced bastard. This seems too hard to believe since he does seem so nice. However, it seems to make so much sense now. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif

My cousin had one of the Old school (2002) 15K's in his trunk. He only gave it about 500watts. Well, the spider ripped off the basket in about 2 weeks. We fixed it with some epoxy and it did fix it good. However, he was to afraid to send it more then 200 watts or so and he wound up selling it to friend for 50 bucks.

Then eD started the flat cone design. I was going to buy two since I alway believed in second chances but the backorder wait was way to long to bare and I wound up going with RE HC line.

I figured that with the new 2004 line, I was going to recommend my friend to buy 3 15A's for his van since they were so cheap but now forget it. I don't associate with shady people, and now eD is on my shit list. eD is no better then the pyle, sony, and pyramid crap they sell in stores.

Ben doesn't even want to reply and defend himself which makes it so much worse. I guess he just wants to hide on ICIX and pretend like the other forums don't exist. I didn't even really know him but he seemed like somebody I could trust to get my money's worth from. I fell betrayed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[imready77 10+ year member]

Wow, if all of the above is true, all I got to say is that Ben is twofaced bastard. This seems too hard to believe since he does seem so nice. However, it seems to make so much sense now. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif
My cousin had one of the Old school (2002) 15K's in his trunk. He only gave it about 500watts. Well, the spider ripped off the basket in about 2 weeks. We fixed it with some epoxy and it did fix it good. However, he was to afraid to send it more then 200 watts or so and he wound up selling it to friend for 50 bucks.

Then eD started the flat cone design. I was going to buy two since I alway believed in second chances but the backorder wait was way to long to bare and I wound up going with RE HC line.

I figured that with the new 2004 line, I was going to recommend my friend to buy 3 15A's for his van since they were so cheap but now forget it. I don't associate with shady people, and now eD is on my shit list. eD is no better then the pyle, sony, and pyramid crap they sell in stores.

Ben doesn't even want to reply and defend himself which makes it so much worse. I guess he just wants to hide on ICIX and pretend like the other forums don't exist. I didn't even really know him but he seemed like somebody I could trust to get my money's worth from. I fell betrayed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

what kind of van do your friend have and is he going sealed or ported?