Rainbow Profi Kick Bass .... explained ( for better mid-bass )

I think you mean phase relationship. Which is affected by the xover point, an eq is not the recommended tool to fix that.
I don't mean phase relationship, I said EQ and I mean EQ.

Most setups simply have their Pass bands and/or mid-bass bandwidth not EQ'd or mis-EQ'd. It’s an amplitude related problem.

Phase coherency over pass bands between the mid-bass to subwoofer are very very rarely problematic, it’s far below any frequency where front to back spatial cues exist, and in general people aren’t sensitive to any ITD’s below 250hz (which isn’t related to bass upfront but rather horizontal azimuth point source localization).

I’ve been involved with a handful of discussions and tests stemming from phase coherency, acoustic summing, distortion, and absolute phase due crossovers being used.

All those DIY low qts drivers cannot compare in an IB configuration in comparison to a real caraudio tooled high qts driver. Been there, done that. Talk about NEEDING EQ to get acceptable sound as always some area of the freq response is affected using IB. Seal them, or vent them-then yes you are getting what you pay for from them. But IB use from a sub .5 qts driver is boo boo unless you have a perfect door for them. They either sound boomy and undefined(scans) or thin on the lower end (seas) and jeapordizes xover point/power handling.
I’ve always thought Rainbow’s drivers lack low end.

Personally, I’ve never seen one of the above mentioned drivers IB in an acoustically sound environment, like a house. But as far as car “IB” (if you can call it that) mounting is concerned, highly damped drivers (over damped) typically are a prefect fit for mid-bass/midrange. Typically the frequency point where damping dominates response, is low enough to where car resonances and summed responses need very little eq’ing.

And I can’t believe you think Seas mounted in a car are thin on the low end or Scan’s are boomy. You must really have had bad installs.

 
idk why but i LOVE thread that talk about -----mid-bass----, always learn new stuff:yumyum:

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/popcorn.gif.32dd9e22fd77e77bc3c907062768fcd2.gif

 
And I can’t believe you think Seas mounted in a car are thin on the low end or Scan’s are boomy. You must really have had bad installs.
The only use I see for EQ in that region is to attack resonance issues. I dont see where its the absolute cure for sub/midbass integration UNLESS you have limited xover values/slopes and have no other choice.

I'm running Seas midbasses in my car as we speak. They replaced Morel H8.1 diy /low qt drivers. And my install is far from bad, what i have going for me is alot of power and greater cone area being they are 8" drivers-moderate sized door helps as well. They are a good speaker, but its far from just a drop in good performer. And yes they are on the thin side on the lower midbass. Depending on the door the 6.5's I've had experience with (the lotus car line, still low qts version) need boosting help in the 80-100hz region to get better output , and a steep filter at 80hz to take volume without bottoming out. Of course conditions can always be argued as the culprit, too many variables. Give me the option of a high qts driver and a low qts, i know better now to get a driver better suited for that application.

Regardless...staying on topic, the Profi Kickbass driver- it makes itself at home in ANY door after break in and delivers the same performance it would in any other door.

And its not just output we are talking here, its the effortless quality and fidelity of the kick that is remarkable for a 6.5" that you'd expect from a larger driver. What it does in the 80-220hz region is straight up tits. Great speaker.

 
This is where the average installer fails. Often it takes a REALLY good dedicated tuner to get this right. There are a multitude of tricks to help with this , not the least of which are the " Kick " series from Rainbow. They REALLY help bring the bass up front for VASTLY improved integration with the sub.

Please do continue... the suspense is killing me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 
Ughh ... Thnking , you are in over your head here. No offense meanst , but um ... NO , you are off with your line of reasoning.

People on this thread who are SINFULLY familiar with the Rainbow offerings , especially the Profi Kick being discussed , are VERY " in the know " about this subject from first hand experience , and Manny may have said it best ...... For INSANELY great mid-bass , beating the Profi Kicks is going to be VERY hard to do .... They truly are " tits " //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 
Good Lord Manny !!!! Did we just agree on something ?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 
Ughh ... Thnking , you are in over your head here. No offense meanst , but um ... NO , you are off with your line of reasoning. People on this thread who are SINFULLY familiar with the Rainbow offerings , especially the Profi Kick being discussed , are VERY " in the know " about this subject from first hand experience , and Manny may have said it best ...... For INSANELY great mid-bass , beating the Profi Kicks is going to be VERY hard to do .... They truly are " tits " //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
Good Lord Manny !!!! Did we just agree on something ?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
before you listen to anything this fool says read:

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158012

(hebrew ham. proves him to be a douchefuc and he has nothing to say, just ignores the posts)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178941

(goes on to say anyone who likes eclipse knows nothing about music or how it should sound... and that he's never been flamed LAWL)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

(even worse)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156802

(and again)

he has no credibility at all. all he does is argue about shit he has only the slightest knowledge about

 
I agree with Manny on his point about phase relationship and how crossover affects the need for its adjustment.

I am no where near Blue or Manny's experience level when it comes to tuning but I know two things.

1. I use beefy Rainbow mids (not "kickbass" models though) and they are crossed over at the same point as the sub is. Having them out of phase with each other has resulted in a much better frequency response and lack of sub point source location. With the levels set correctly, there is a near seamless interactions between the two - markedly better than I have heard, in my limited experience with high end mids.

2. The Pioneer 880prs will automatically reverse the phase between the mids and the subs if you perform the autoEq function and have them both crossed over at the same point. Why? Because it works better most of the time that way.

I really don't understand how Thnking can get away with saying "Phase coherency over pass bands between the mid-bass to subwoofer are very very rarely problematic".

 
Reversing phase on the sub + fronts makes a massive difference in my setup, both are crossed over @80hz and with them in phase with eachother the bass IS easily directionally noticeable. With the phase reversed, it sounds like it's emanating from the front at higher frequencies and like it's coming out of the center of your chest at the lower frequencies (never like it's behind you).

 
before you listen to anything this fool says read:

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158012

(hebrew ham. proves him to be a douchefuc and he has nothing to say, just ignores the posts)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178941

(goes on to say anyone who likes eclipse knows nothing about music or how it should sound... and that he's never been flamed LAWL)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

(even worse)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156802

(and again)

he has no credibility at all. all he does is argue about shit he has only the slightest knowledge about
Eugenics .... Why not leave this thread alone ? You were not invited , are not welcome here , and your ONLY purpose is to try and start crap. I don't need ANY kind of validation from you in any way , and have no desire to see you get in the way of people who may be trying to learn something.

 
before you listen to anything this fool says read:

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158012

(hebrew ham. proves him to be a douchefuc and he has nothing to say, just ignores the posts)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178941

(goes on to say anyone who likes eclipse knows nothing about music or how it should sound... and that he's never been flamed LAWL)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

(even worse)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156802

(and again)

he has no credibility at all. all he does is argue about shit he has only the slightest knowledge about
blue's credibility aside, what credibility do you have other than talking trash to people on an internet forum?

There wasn't even any hostility in this thread until you popped in and saw a chance to dog on someone.

 
Eugenics .... Why not leave this thread alone ? You were not invited , are not welcome here , and your ONLY purpose is to try and start crap. I don't need ANY kind of validation from you in any way , and have no desire to see you get in the way of people who may be trying to learn something.
learning what? what YOU think is best? disregarding anything else?

 
learning what? what YOU think is best? disregarding anything else?
i dont know if you read through all those links you posted but it has already been decided that blue is god //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 
The only use I see for EQ in that region is to attack resonance issues. I dont see where its the absolute cure for sub/midbass integration UNLESS you have limited xover values/slopes and have no other choice.
There is obvious gain unity and SPL output matching which needs to occur through this region. These are the most typical problem with any setup when people lack mid-bass upfront. There’s no other audible integration which is signal related. In fact I bet if you had the schematic of the passives on the Rainbow passives, you’d probably see notch filters and such doing exactly this.

 
Ughh ... Thnking , you are in over your head here. No offense meanst , but um ... NO , you are off with your line of reasoning. People on this thread who are SINFULLY familiar with the Rainbow offerings , especially the Profi Kick being discussed , are VERY " in the know " about this subject from first hand experience , and Manny may have said it best ...... For INSANELY great mid-bass , beating the Profi Kicks is going to be VERY hard to do .... They truly are " tits " //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
Insanely great is a relative term obviously. The quantity of mid-bass doesn’t compare to something like an Adire Extremis, or a number of other speakers, but I never said it wasn’t very nice or that the speakers aren’t nice in general.

Everyone has their favorites, I’m simply stating why I wouldn’t buy them for their price, you don’t have to accept what I’m telling you and it doesn’t matter to me either way.

 
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