Question for religious people.......

[Chevillac 5,000+ posts]

Morality comes from within, not from some 'supreme being'.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/word.gif.64b12e39f936af3b4fff38a1c0bd0244.gif basically what I was getting at.

 

[2fnloud 10+ year member]

Let me ask you this. Say you were one of the first people on earth. You and one other person are there(he walks into your area), you have basic communication skills, no other knowledge.
What are some of the first rules you would make?

examples, well what i would say.

No killing. No stealing.

You dont need religion to tell you that you are doing something wrong. Or that you are being wronged by someone else. Its a feeling. Even little kids understand this.

Ah, but little kids don't understand this they are taught it. The parent influences thier moral beliefs on them. Exsample, Child draws on the wall with crayon, up untill the child learns the lesson that writting on the walls equals punishment from a parent, the child will continue to write on the wall, why? they do not know that it is wrong to write on the wall.

So two of the first people on Earth met with nothing more than basic communication skills and nothing more. They would do anything until they learned the consequences of that action. Then the action would be weight againt the consequences that they learned from doing that action before.

Am I making sence?

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Ah, but little kids don't understand this they are taught it. The parent influences thier moral beliefs on them. Exsample, Child draws on the wall with crayon, up untill the child learns the lesson that writting on the walls equals punishment from a parent, the child will continue to write on the wall, why? they do not know that it is wrong to write on the wall.
So two of the first people on Earth met with nothing more than basic communication skills and nothing more. They would do anything until they learned the consequences of that action. Then the action would be weight againt the consequences that they learned from doing that action before.

Am I making sence?

I agree it is somewhat taught but it is also somewhat natural. But what happens if your parents arent religious?

 

[2fnloud 10+ year member]

Morality comes from within, not from some 'supreme being'.

That is what you call it and that is fine. I call it conviction of the Holy Spirt. FYI I edited myself to your quote.

 

[Chevillac 5,000+ posts]

Ah, but little kids don't understand this they are taught it. The parent influences thier moral beliefs on them. Exsample, Child draws on the wall with crayon, up untill the child learns the lesson that writting on the walls equals punishment from a parent, the child will continue to write on the wall, why? they do not know that it is wrong to write on the wall.
So two of the first people on Earth met with nothing more than basic communication skills and nothing more. They would do anything until they learned the consequences of that action. Then the action would be weight againt the consequences that they learned from doing that action before.

Am I making sence?

And in either of those examples you just gave, was anything related to religion. And I am not talking 5 to 6 year olds, im talkin 1 2 3. They know. if one baby takes from another, the first baby cries. The other one may cry too, for making the other cry. They know what is going on. Its learned early.

 

[2fnloud 10+ year member]

I agree it is somewhat taught but it is also somewhat natural. But what happens if your parents arent religious?

But have already stated that you do not have to be religious to have morals. So what does that matter? I do believe that we only have morals because we (yes ALL of us) believe that there is some kind of undesired consquence for a particular action. Exsample:

Question: Should you kill a person?

Christain: "No, It is the Sixth Commandment (had to look that up I just knew it was one of them) Thou Shall not kill/

athiest: "No because I wouldn't want to go to prision." that may not be ALL athiest's answer's but I think it make my point. We all don't do things for different reasons.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

But have already stated that you do not have to be religious to have morals. So what does that matter? I do believe that we only have morals because we (yes ALL of us) believe that there is some kind of undesired consquence for a particular action. Exsample:
Question: Should you kill a person?

Christain: "No, It is the Sixth Commandment (had to look that up I just knew it was one of them) Thou Shall not kill/

athiest: "No because I wouldn't want to go to prision." that may not be ALL athiest's answer's but I think it make my point. We all don't do things for different reasons.

I was thinking you were trying to prove to me that morals are because of religion. If that is not the point you are trying to make than no harm done.

 

[2fnloud 10+ year member]

And in either of those examples you just gave, was anything related to religion. And I am not talking 5 to 6 year olds, im talkin 1 2 3. They know. if one baby takes from another, the first baby cries. The other one may cry too, for making the other cry. They know what is going on. Its learned early.

Yes but it is still learned, And I never tried to tie my exsample to religion now did I?

 

[Chevillac 5,000+ posts]

Yes but it is still learned, And I never tried to tie my exsample to religion now did I?

because of this below(before it was edited)

Morals were around long before religion so that is moot.

I would love to know why you believe that?

 

[2fnloud 10+ year member]

I was thinking you were trying to prove to me that morals are because of religion. If that is not the point you are trying to make than no harm done.

Morals no Moral Athority, then we would be depating. FYI I knew that "Tho Shall not kill was a 10 commandment I just didn't know it ws the sixth one.

I am a Christain, it influances my moral beliefs. And I have no problem sharing why I believe what I believe, but I will not will not shove down ones throught.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Ah, but little kids don't understand this they are taught it. The parent influences thier moral beliefs on them. Exsample, Child draws on the wall with crayon, up untill the child learns the lesson that writting on the walls equals punishment from a parent, the child will continue to write on the wall, why? they do not know that it is wrong to write on the wall.

Why is it wrong to write on the wall? This is hardly a question of morality. At best, the lesson there should be that you do not touch someone else's property (although to a child, it might as well be theirs), which again has nothing to do with religion at all and links directly back to what I said.

But have already stated that you do not have to be religious to have morals. So what does that matter? I do believe that we only have morals because we (yes ALL of us) believe that there is some kind of undesired consquence for a particular action. Exsample:
Question: Should you kill a person?

Christain: "No, It is the Sixth Commandment (had to look that up I just knew it was one of them) Thou Shall not kill/

athiest: "No because I wouldn't want to go to prision." that may not be ALL athiest's answer's but I think it make my point. We all don't do things for different reasons.

At the very least, all you have done is proven that laws can replace the "morality" given by religion. In fact, that is all religion is...another form of social law.

Animals don't have a god, so I bet none of them stand a chance of living past a year old, since they will just want to kill each other over and over.

All this conjecture forgets that even those who have been given such a great moral compass by religion still routinely kill people, often in the name of religion. So tell me again how great it is at providing morality.....

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

And in either of those examples you just gave, was anything related to religion. And I am not talking 5 to 6 year olds, im talkin 1 2 3. They know. if one baby takes from another, the first baby cries. The other one may cry too, for making the other cry. They know what is going on. Its learned early.

how do you know that is why they are crying? you say it as though it is fact.

 

[Chevillac 5,000+ posts]

how do you know that is why they are crying? you say it as though it is fact.

did you see the word may(meaning, might/could) in the first part of that sentence? Im going by psychology 101 here. Anyone with common sense that was studying the kids would see the cause and effect of the situation.

Besides, if you can make claims and say they are fact so can I. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/imdaman.gif.bc6c552e19aa4ad8c47461144f40eb1a.gif

 

[Chevillac 5,000+ posts]

Yes but it is still learned, And I never tried to tie my exsample to religion now did I?

And in that situation, its learned from personal experience.....'within' like mokedaddy said.

 

[adio 5,000+ posts]

Let me ask you this. Say you were one of the first people on earth. You and one other person are there(he walks into your area), you have basic communication skills, no other knowledge.
What are some of the first rules you would make?

examples, well what i would say.

No killing. No stealing.

You dont need religion to tell you that you are doing something wrong. Or that you are being wronged by someone else. Its a feeling. Even little kids understand this.

bad example...... how would 2 of the first people on earth know what killing and stealing are?