Please help me plan a nice front stage.

[Danometal 10+ year member]

Hello.

It's time to plan a nice front stage. I just ordered this:

Audio Savings | Boston Acoustics GTA-704 500W RMS 4 Channel Car Amplifier GTA704 + 8 AWG Amp Kit

I got that for $159 shipped, and it will match my GTA-1000m I'm running on a JBL P1224 sub in 2.5 cubes @ 25 hz. (So far I'm very content with how the sub stage turned out)

I'm currently running an Alpine CDA-117 on my factory Saturn 6.5 inch components, which actually get crazy loud and clear (sweet tweeters especially), but I want it to sound more powerful and just engulf me in sound like I'm right there. I love SQ, but I don't think I need an external processor. This HU does enough for my personal tastes. I have some crappy Walmart Xplod 5.25s in the rear doors that I'll probably just leave powered by the HU, and maybe fade them out unless I have rear passengers.

So:

1). I need to know what would work best for baffles, as the factory comps' mounting ring is like 3 - 4 inches deep, so whether I use plastic or MDF baffle rings or whatever, I'll need to stack them to make the proper depth for the new speakers. So, I'll need to know what kind of adhesive/fasters/etc. to use with whatever baffle material is ideal.

2). What materials to use for deadening? (although my Saturn has plastic doors, and they don't resonate, but the door panels might).

3). What materials to seal the doors?

4). And, what are some good components to run passive?

Thanks so much!

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[kramer_212 10+ year member]

well this is just my opinion, and from personally use.

since it sounds like you like to listen to musics loud? i would look at the fosgate power series t1 or t2 comps. the t2s will be a little harsh but at high volumes these shine(to compare i like them better than my old focals(at high volumes)). and can be had on ebay for less than half retail.

cheap and easy way is to use rattle trap sound deadner i have used this many times and as long as your surfaces are clean it will stick, and stay on.

 

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

 

also not sure if you have or not i would run a thicker power wire than that 8 gauge.

 

[Danometal 10+ year member]

well this is just my opinion, and from personally use.
since it sounds like you like to listen to musics loud? i would look at the fosgate power series t1 or t2 comps. the t2s will be a little harsh but at high volumes these shine(to compare i like them better than my old focals(at high volumes)). and can be had on ebay for less than half retail.

cheap and easy way is to use rattle trap sound deadner i have used this many times and as long as your surfaces are clean it will stick, and stay on.

 

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

 

also not sure if you have or not i would run a thicker power wire than that 8 gauge.

Awesome, thanks. I'm a little scared of the "harsh" thing. I definitely want mellow but loud at the same time, but I don't always listen to the system loud. Oh, and I have 0 gauge ran to a distro block by my monoblock amp. It has 2 outputs, and I'm only currently using 1 of them. So, the 8 gauge run will only be like a foot long. I mainly got that deal to get the RCAs on the cheap.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

I have been writing a series of articles on sound deadening, using my Saturn SL2 as the example vehicle. How To Improve Your Vehicle’s Bass – Sound Dampening Part 1

I would really appreciate some feedback if you do check out my articles. If you have any criticism or suggestions for other articles that would be great.

To answer your question about baffle ring materials, you can use MDF rings which can be ordered off eBay. MDF isn't the best option as even if it's treated with rubberized undercoating it can still absorb moisture and fall apart. A good alternative, which i haven't tried yet, is to pick up a couple of plastic cutting boards and make baffle rings from those. You want to shop for the plastic ones that are at least 1/4" thick.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Boston Acoustics makes some nice passive comps. I have heard their entire lineup except the SPZ(?) and was impressed with all of them for their online prices.

Whats your budget for comps?

 

[Danometal 10+ year member]

Boston Acoustics makes some nice passive comps. I have heard their entire lineup except the SPZ(?) and was impressed with all of them for their online prices.Whats your budget for comps?

My budget needs to be less than $200 if possible, as I'll still need some deadening and baffle material. I looked last night in my basement and I have plenty of MDF and carpet for a new amp rack. Hopefully I can fit both amps, distro blocks, and the passives on a 36 inch long amp rack.

How is the midbass on BA's comps? I need lots of snappy midbass to match the strong low end of my sub box.

Edit:

How are these?

http://www.audiosavings.com/products/6.5-and-6.75-Car-Speakers/NEW-BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-SC60-6.5-COMPONENT-CAR-SPEAKERS/SC60.aspx

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

My budget needs to be less than $200 if possible, as I'll still need some deadening and baffle material. I looked last night in my basement and I have plenty of MDF and carpet for a new amp rack. Hopefully I can fit both amps, distro blocks, and the passives on a 36 inch long amp rack.
How is the midbass on BA's comps? I need lots of snappy midbass to match the strong low end of my sub box.

Edit:

How are these?

Audio Savings | NEW BOSTON ACOUSTICS SC60 6.5" COMPONENT CAR SPEAKERS

That SC series is very good. BA comps are install picky though. Once u seal em up they have good midbass. Also look into the Morel Maximos and pioneer ts d1720c. I love tthe Pioneer midbass its VERY punchy! And they take tons of power. I run 125 tto each midbass alone.

 

[Danometal 10+ year member]

That SC series is very good. BA comps are install picky though. Once u seal em up they have good midbass. Also look into the Morel Maximos and pioneer ts d1720c. I love tthe Pioneer midbass its VERY punchy! And they take tons of power. I run 125 tto each midbass alone.

One thing that bothers me with the BAs is that no flush mounts for the tweeters are supplied. What's up with that? But, I do like BA from my experience with this sub amp so far. What about these:

Massive Audio RK 6 (RK6) 6.5" 2-Way RK Series Component Speakers

From looking on Massive's site, they take up to 250 RMS each side, and I'll probably have around 200 or so each on tap from bridged mode (I don't want to max out a 4 channel amp and make the sound all harsh) However, I'm not sure my sub can keep up with that kind of extremity.

* Goes to look up Pioneers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[dontbeaprix 10+ year member]

I love my morels and I'm giving them 125 rms per side.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

One thing that bothers me with the BAs is that no flush mounts for the tweeters are supplied. What's up with that? But, I do like BA from my experience with this sub amp so far. What about these:
Massive Audio RK 6 (RK6) 6.5" 2-Way RK Series Component Speakers

From looking on Massive's site, they take up to 250 RMS each side, and I'll probably have around 200 or so each on tap from bridged mode (I don't want to max out a 4 channel amp and make the sound all harsh) However, I'm not sure my sub can keep up with that kind of extremity.

* Goes to look up Pioneers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

i hear tons about the Massives but I've never tried any or ever really wanted to, to be honest. i know a guy who ran those Pioneers active on an alpine pdx4.150 sooo that shows you just how much power they'll take

 

[BnGRacing 10+ year member]

1). I need to know what would work best for baffles, as the factory comps' mounting ring is like 3 - 4 inches deep, so whether I use plastic or MDF baffle rings or whatever, I'll need to stack them to make the proper depth for the new speakers. So, I'll need to know what kind of adhesive/fasters/etc. to use with whatever baffle material is ideal.

If you use MDF to build up your mounting ring, hit it with some primer. MDF doesn't take well to getting wet. As far as fasteners go, sheet metal/drywall screws will be more than fine. A little strip caulk on the back of the ring to make sure it sits flush with the door wouldn't hurt either. Other materials you can use would be cheap plastic cutting boards...but it seems you need to build something out a little more that.

2). What materials to use for deadening? (although my Saturn has plastic doors, and they don't resonate, but the door panels might).

Don't get too caught up in deadening. It's easy to spend over a $100 on your doors alone while not really helping the root of the problem. Deadening does not make your speakers sound better, it's purpose is to lower road noise when your driving. If most of the road noise you experience comes from the firewall or floor, you've just wasted a lot of $ on deadening that won't do much. While it's nice to seal off the door, making a large baffle for the speakers, you can do the same thing with that Peel n Seal stuff. Overall, you'd be better off spending more $ on better speakers than better/more deadening.

3). What materials to seal the doors?

See above.

4). And, what are some good components to run passive?

You'll hear a lot of people spout off brands & models - don't pay much attention. There is no specification out there that one can look at and say "oh, these must sound awesome!" and be right 100% of the time. You really need to use your own ears. Watts? Those Massive speakers you posted are 'rated' almost as high as some very good 12" subwoofers. But when push comes to shove, I can guarantee that those mids will go up in smoke first. Don't pay attention to watts, it's a meaningless spec. Same goes for frequency response. Go to a high-end audio store and listen to some speaker towers that cost a couple grand each. They'll all be rated with a relatively flat freq response (60-20k +/- 3db), yet they'll all sound somewhat different...sometimes vastly so...but you'd never know by looking them up online.

Things I've always looked for when buying components for myself are how the passives crossovers are made, quality of components used in the crossover, and a big fat tweeter that's usually difficult to install. Why? In my experience the materials used to make the speaker cones doesn't really make much of a difference. Exotic materials & fancy motors do not mean it will sound good. The passive crossovers though, that's where the magic happens.

Generally, passive crossovers that are able to be bi-wired/amp'd tend to be of higher quality. There's exceptions of course, but generally those with that capability have a little more thought put into them. There are phase shifts at the passive crossover points and the efficiencies of the tweeter vs. mid will be different at varying frequencies. So there's a bit more to a crossover than just a cap & coil. The best, and perhaps only, way to tell is by listening. With a good crossover even plastic tweeters can sound gorgeous and is another reason why speaker material really doesn't mean that much.

Use your ears instead of what you read on a vendor's website and you'll be fine.

 

[Danometal 10+ year member]

If you use MDF to build up your mounting ring, hit it with some primer. MDF doesn't take well to getting wet. As far as fasteners go, sheet metal/drywall screws will be more than fine. A little strip caulk on the back of the ring to make sure it sits flush with the door wouldn't hurt either. Other materials you can use would be cheap plastic cutting boards...but it seems you need to build something out a little more that.

Don't get too caught up in deadening. It's easy to spend over a $100 on your doors alone while not really helping the root of the problem. Deadening does not make your speakers sound better, it's purpose is to lower road noise when your driving. If most of the road noise you experience comes from the firewall or floor, you've just wasted a lot of $ on deadening that won't do much. While it's nice to seal off the door, making a large baffle for the speakers, you can do the same thing with that Peel n Seal stuff. Overall, you'd be better off spending more $ on better speakers than better/more deadening.

See above.

You'll hear a lot of people spout off brands & models - don't pay much attention. There is no specification out there that one can look at and say "oh, these must sound awesome!" and be right 100% of the time. You really need to use your own ears. Watts? Those Massive speakers you posted are 'rated' almost as high as some very good 12" subwoofers. But when push comes to shove, I can guarantee that those mids will go up in smoke first. Don't pay attention to watts, it's a meaningless spec. Same goes for frequency response. Go to a high-end audio store and listen to some speaker towers that cost a couple grand each. They'll all be rated with a relatively flat freq response (60-20k +/- 3db), yet they'll all sound somewhat different...sometimes vastly so...but you'd never know by looking them up online.

Things I've always looked for when buying components for myself are how the passives crossovers are made, quality of components used in the crossover, and a big fat tweeter that's usually difficult to install. Why? In my experience the materials used to make the speaker cones doesn't really make much of a difference. Exotic materials & fancy motors do not mean it will sound good. The passive crossovers though, that's where the magic happens.

Generally, passive crossovers that are able to be bi-wired/amp'd tend to be of higher quality. There's exceptions of course, but generally those with that capability have a little more thought put into them. There are phase shifts at the passive crossover points and the efficiencies of the tweeter vs. mid will be different at varying frequencies. So there's a bit more to a crossover than just a cap & coil. The best, and perhaps only, way to tell is by listening. With a good crossover even plastic tweeters can sound gorgeous and is another reason why speaker material really doesn't mean that much.

Use your ears instead of what you read on a vendor's website and you'll be fine.

Intriguing info. One reason I'm concerned with watts is that, in my wife's setup, I have a Kicker 200.2 (75 watts RMS/channel) pushing Polk DB comps, which are rated for 100+ RMS. It gets a little raspy at high volume, so I'm thinking the lack of overhead power on tap is making the difference. However, I'm running a LOC off her factory HU until tax time, so maybe a nice clean 4V signal will help that, plus I might buy her a nice 4 channel and bridge it. And, I plan to get enough material to seal her doors and mine, and maybe some deadener to do the 25% coverage approach. I suppose deadener can cover small holes where solid material isn't practical.

I definitely don't know the ins and outs of passive Xovers. Do you have any suggestions for a comp set with a proven passive Xover design? Lots of midbass is important too. Thanks bro.

 

[Brandon Grubbs 10+ year member]

Hey man, come stop by and i will let you hear my front stage. hybrid audio imagine.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

If you use MDF to build up your mounting ring, hit it with some primer. MDF doesn't take well to getting wet.

Primer, or spray paint as well, does not block moisture. Ever seen a body panel rust out when someone tried to do their own body work? Use a few coats of rubberized undercoating spray on MDF speaker rings.

Don't get too caught up in deadening. It's easy to spend over a $100 on your doors alone while not really helping the root of the problem. Deadening does not make your speakers sound better, it's purpose is to lower road noise when your driving. If most of the road noise you experience comes from the firewall or floor, you've just wasted a lot of $ on deadening that won't do much. While it's nice to seal off the door, making a large baffle for the speakers, you can do the same thing with that Peel n Seal stuff. Overall, you'd be better off spending more $ on better speakers than better/more deadening.

You're entirely wrong on this subject, so please stop giving bad advice. Peel'n'Seal is for roofs, not vehicles. Compare it to real sound deadener tiles and notice the two main differences: 1) it's asphalt based, not butyl based 2) it has no metal bonded to it. The metal isn't there just to look shiny.

As for sound deadening not improving the sound of your door's speakers, all you need to do is perform a search and you'll find countless evidence to the contrary.

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

Regarding your advice about power ratings on speakers, the thing to remember is music is dynamic and your speakers are only momentarily going to receive your amp's maximum power output. This is why people can run 200 watts per channel on 50 watt RMS speakers and not instantly blow them up. Obviously this requires correct tuning and careful gain matching and also not listening to compressed music at high volume.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

Deadener will help. Its purpose is not to stop road noise. Thats what Mass Loaded Vinyl is for.