PDX-V9 Amp Tuning Questions For Focal PS165V1 Active

[imsickofweed]

I posted this in the speaker sub-forum but no response in a few days so maybe it was the wrong place for this.

Equipment:

Alpine PDX-V9 4x100W 500W mono sub channel

Pioneer FH-P8000BT HU

Focal PS165V1 component set running active with amp crossovers

2002 Ford Escape with factory tweeter door sail panels, doors are heavily treated with dynamat and 1/2” dynaliner, 1/2” abs speaker adapters, MLV velcroed at the top and draped down. Rear door speakers are removed and those doors will be treated lightly with dynamat, dynaliner, and MLV

Goals:

1. Good crossover starting point for high pass 1.75” tweeters, and band pass 6.5” mids.

2. Determine power to send to tweeters.

Im looking for a good place to start with the crossover settings and wattage on the focals. Ive read that the included crossovers are set at 4, 4.5, and 5kHz and set is rated for 80wrms. Tweeters will be on ch1/2 and mids on ch3/4. Tweeters are in factory location aimed off access, but can be moved around depending on how it sounds to me. I assume the power ratings are for use with the crossovers and they will determine how much power gets sent to the tweeters. Ive heard that the tweeters can be pretty bright and most people tone them down with the included attenuation switches on the crossovers to -6dB. Is this something I should do with the HU EQ or the gain on the amp? I plan on doing 80wrms to the mids set with a DMM, later on I might have access to an O-scope to double check distortion, but I figure 80wrms is way under the rated 100wrms of the amp. Should I also run the full 80wrms to the tweeters?

The sub is not yet determined, Im trying to do more of a stealth setup and I dont want a giant ported box in the rear hatch area. Anything that can handle the full 500wrms power is too big to fit under the seat so Im thinking of front passenger footwell custom box. The original plan was a small 6.75” sub in the factory box, but thats not cutting it for the amount of bass I want. It will probably be a 10” or 12”, but the 13.5” shallow JL looks intersting for my situation. Im more focused on getting a good starting point for the focals, this is just an FYI.

Click to read more...

 

[imsickofweed]

I found the spec sheet for the woofer of the component set, but cant find anything for the tweeter. I just set gains by ear on the tweeter, but I set by DMM at 80wrms for the woofer. My HU starts distorting around 52/62 volume, but I set my gains at 47/62. Im getting sqrt(4x80)=17.88VAC and that basically puts my gain knob almost to the end of the dial. My sheet from the amp factory says it tested at 118wrms, advertised at 100wrms, but Im toping out close to 90wrms if I go the whole way. Im assuming its because my voltage is at 13.7v and they do tests at 14.4v. Its way louder than I really like to listen to at max volume so I backed it down a tad to around 17v at 47/62 volume and I normally listen in the 20-28/62 range. The tweeters were set around 40wrms and mounted in factory sail panel location, they felt a little bright so Ive turned the gain down to around 35wrms. I want to get a pink noise disk and see what my iphone rta says Im at, but right now Im pretty happy.

Tweeters are crossed at 4kHz on a 12dB slope

Mids are crossed at 100Hz to 4kHz on a 12dB slope

Sub is 20Hz-100Hz on the same 12dB slope

Its all done with the amp so 12dB is all I got, the sub is a kicker 6.75” in the factory box with 150wrms and it bottoms out at 28/62 volume. Planning on a custom sealed stealth box behind front passenger seat to hold an 8” or 10” capable of 500wrms. Rough measurements give me 7” from floor to box top so 3/4” mdf and room for stealth fabric and cone excursion give me around 5” of top mount depth. The rear seats have to fold down on top of the sub to carry cargo at times so I dont want the sub hitting the seat in that position. Downfiring is a possibility and probably preferable for how I use the truck, but it seems Id get more bass if it fires up. Right now Im a little tight so Im looking for a CL special under $100 with single sub and box to bounce around in the hatch area til I can build the box.

As for the tweeters and mids crossover points I might try going with 3 or 3.5kHz since those are the other 2 options that you can select from in the included passive crossovers. Im open to any suggestions for the sub/box, crossover points, tweeter gain settings, or iphone rta app tuning procedures.

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Ok so when it comes to going active, the dmm method is not going to help you. You can use your passive crossover points as a reference but you have the flexibility to play around with it according to your car acoustics. -12db slope is fine to use but try underlapping the crossover points so you don’t end up having large peaks between the drivers. Meaning if you have your tweeter at 4khz for example, then try 2.5khz lpf on your mids and move it up and down. It will really depend on speakers, car, and preference. Use your ears!! Active tuning takes alittle practice and time to get right but once you do, it’s totally worth it. For tweeter gains, I always put the gain all the way down to 0. Then match the mids gain slowly until you feel you got it right. This will take a few tries. Use as much clean output from your headunit so you can keep your gains down. Even when I set my tweeter gains to 0, I still end up bringing down the levels to around -2db because tweeters are more efficient with power especially with active crossovers. In a passive setup, alot of that heat and energy is wasted into the crossover.

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Here’s a download link to pink noise CD for tuning purposes.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/h8fnmit8fhemc6c/Sheffield_Lab.zip

 

[imsickofweed]

Ok so when it comes to going active, the dmm method is not going to help you. You can use your passive crossover points as a reference but you have the flexibility to play around with it according to your car acoustics. -12db slope is fine to use but try underlapping the crossover points so you don’t end up having large peaks between the drivers. Meaning if you have your tweeter at 4khz for example, then try 2.5khz lpf on your mids and move it up and down. It will really depend on speakers, car, and preference. Use your ears!! Active tuning takes alittle practice and time to get right but once you do, it’s totally worth it. For tweeter gains, I always put the gain all the way down to 0. Then match the mids gain slowly until you feel you got it right. This will take a few tries. Use as much clean output from your headunit so you can keep your gains down. Even when I set my tweeter gains to 0, I still end up bringing down the levels to around -2db because tweeters are more efficient with power especially with active crossovers. In a passive setup, alot of that heat and energy is wasted into the crossover.

Thanks for the link and tips, Ill give it a shot for the tweeter gains. My problem with my amps crossover is that the bandpass crossover point for the mids is chosen by the crossover point for the tweeters so I cant really overlap as far as I can tell. Ill take a second look at that when I get home, but Im pretty sure thats the case. Ive been considering upgrading my HU to an 80PRS, would this have a crossover network worthy of a beginner in an active setup?

Heres my amp manual, Im pretty sure Im correct with the tweeter and mid crossover points being the same.

http://support.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_PDX-V9.pdf

 

[imsickofweed]

https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-audio-kits-solutions/performance/expert/component-kits/ps-165-v1

I found the spec sheets, the mid gives a bump at 4kHz so maybe that is filling in the gap for that crossover point. The tweeter has a dip at 3.5kHz and bumps back up at 4kHz so if were just tuning by the chart 4kHz looks like the best place to do it. Another option I have is the HU EQ, but its pretty limited. I have adjustment at 5kHz and 12.5kHz, maybe I crossover at 5kHz and give a bump there? So far its sounding pretty good to me at 4kHz, but I havent tried it higher. Before today I was thinking of dropping it lower, if anything, to share the power a little better across the component set. I found a 450wrms kenwood XR-W12F 12" shallow mount sub on CL for $150 in a 0.6ft3 box that might be able to fit in my preferred location but the box is smaller than the 0.8ft3 that kenwood recommends. How much would this difference affect the bass?

 

[imsickofweed]

Found a shallow mount kenwood xr-w12f 12" in a 0.6ft3 box that looks like itll fit behind my passenger seat. Sub is rated for 450wrms and I think I can get it for $100. Im looking to set off car alarms in the parking garage, but I think this should be plenty for being so close to me in the car. Ideally this sub should be in a 0.8ft3 box, but 0.6ft3 net is close. If it hits decent I can stuff some polyfill in there and call it a day. Anyone have anything negative to say about this sub? Like inherant defects with the model or if it can really handle 450wrms. Ill be testing it at the rated capacity, and see what it sounds like in the installed location before purchase.

Later down the line I want more quality, but this is cheap, it fits, and it can take a good amount of power. My limitations are mainly 7” of height including the box so I require more of a shallow mount sub.

 

[imsickofweed]

I started a box build for 2 Sundown SA6.5 SW, any help or advice is appreciated.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/enclosure-design-construction-help/636900-twin-sundown-sa6-5-sw-d2-32hz-ported-0-6ft3-ford-escape-box-build.html#post8959443