oklahoma's new law HB 1804

[sundownz Pro Seller]

If you say people WILL come here..unfortunately with another amnesty if we do it and don't secure our borders employers will find new illegals to hire that will still work for horrible wages in horrible conditions. So it will be a never ending cycle. What do we do when a good portion of those amnestized become citizens and have to go on welfare when new illegals come in and take their jobs. What kind of burden will that put on us?
Illegals WILL keep coming as long as the laws are not enforced and employers draw them here. Notice in the states with strict laws the illegals there are moving to more legal friendly states. What do you think would happen if the feds enforced like they should and actually secured our borders? All the illegals would migrate home...or to Canada eh.

People talk about the costs of deportation, if the laws were enforced its obvious most illegals would self-deport. At that point then I say take another assessment of unemployment, wages, and rethink our immigration system.

And again, we are at a point where no matter what we decided -- your way, my way, or another way -- something is going to give.

What happens when cheap labor is gone? Quite a few US factories will close, no longer able to compete with imports. The legal workers at those places lose their jobs too. The businesses that do stick around will have to raise prices, decreasing what the average Joe can buy with his wages -- then wages must increase, costs go up, etc. That equals inflation.

I don't really see there being an "ideal" solution -- more like juggling a mess, which is what our government does with everything it touches anyway. I think a temporary worker ID would be a help, it would at least get some tax dollars from workers who would not otherwise be paying them. Perhaps even add extra tax on there for being a temp and not a permanent resident to pay for any overhead in managing it. Any way you look at it... just having them all leave isn't going to help our country per-se, neither is having them stay illegal as it is.

I'm not saying I have the solution -- but "sending them all home" isn't as much of a solution as people seem to think it is.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Jacob, as someone who's been through it, I can tell you it doesn't require a lawyer and it isn't as hard as the 'immigration attorneys' would have you believe.
It's not a short process, and it shouldn't be. It takes some years, yes. But it's far from impossible for the average person to figure out if it's important enough for them to spend time doing the research.

Cheers. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I'm sure you know more about it than I do, being that you have done it. And sure, it can be done... seems to me, though, that it is a bit more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be -- especially for people that simply want to come here, work for a few years, then go back home.

I'm not for just making all illegals citizens automatically... but I do think that some kind of ID system needs to be around to account for them and give them some kind of temp status, at least so we know who they are and so they can pay taxes. There are some visa programs that are kind of like this already, but again, seems that they are too complicated and/or time consuming for people that want to get here fast to make money and help their families.

Maybe I'm off on that... but I'd think a great deal more immigrants would be doing it legally if it wasn't more complicated than it needed to be. I'm sure they don't enjoy watching their back and fearing deportation.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

And again, we are at a point where no matter what we decided -- your way, my way, or another way -- something is going to give.
What happens when cheap labor is gone? Quite a few US factories will close, no longer able to compete with imports. The legal workers at those places lose their jobs too. The businesses that do stick around will have to raise prices, decreasing what the average Joe can buy with his wages -- then wages must increase, costs go up, etc. That equals inflation.

I don't really see there being an "ideal" solution -- more like juggling a mess, which is what our government does with everything it touches anyway. I think a temporary worker ID would be a help, it would at least get some tax dollars from workers who would not otherwise be paying them. Perhaps even add extra tax on there for being a temp and not a permanent resident to pay for any overhead in managing it. Any way you look at it... just having them all leave isn't going to help our country per-se, neither is having them stay illegal as it is.

I'm not saying I have the solution -- but "sending them all home" isn't as much of a solution as people seem to think it is.

I don't see the threat of inflation important enough to keep people at $5.85/hr for the rest of their lives. Its very discouraging to see any job that can't be outsourced be filled with insourced illegal labor (not all jobs, but its a trend). We have a disgusting trade deficit that needs to be delt with. I love my good priced amps //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif and my cheap walmart made in china toys, but at some point something is going to have to change or the average american won't stand any chance to make it to middle class. Maybe its not entirely that bleak, but i'm a pessimist.

We have a few big problems. both sides of the debate are at extreme opposites. There are people like me that want to see deportation, self deportation, and employer enforcement. Then there are others that want amnesty and temporary guest worker visas (which is a sham if you've read any of the recent defeated "comprehensive immigration reform" bills almost all temp visas could convert to full citizenship status.) Its hard to come to a compromise with people so far apart on ideas.

The absolute biggest problem we have though is our government. With an election year coming up we will continue to here the talk, but guaranteed when in office we won't see the walk //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

I honestly think, secure our borders and "send them home" or let them self-repatriate once we start enforcing our laws is a solution...ideal no...just and feasible...yes. Send home the lawbreakers, properly assess the need for employees and methodically fix the numbers/process of our Legal immigration system once we know what we actually need for labor without suppressing wages with an oversupply of labor and a shortage of demand. Amnestizing 12 to 20 million illegals is just not the ideal, nor feasible answer no matter how you try to reason it.

Its good to debate here though. Always good to see others take on the argument and experiences.

 

[tRidiot 10+ year member]

I'm sure you know more about it than I do, being that you have done it. And sure, it can be done... seems to me, though, that it is a bit more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be -- especially for people that simply want to come here, work for a few years, then go back home.
I'm not for just making all illegals citizens automatically... but I do think that some kind of ID system needs to be around to account for them and give them some kind of temp status, at least so we know who they are and so they can pay taxes. There are some visa programs that are kind of like this already, but again, seems that they are too complicated and/or time consuming for people that want to get here fast to make money and help their families.

Maybe I'm off on that... but I'd think a great deal more immigrants would be doing it legally if it wasn't more complicated than it needed to be. I'm sure they don't enjoy watching their back and fearing deportation.

You're absolutely right. It is more complicated and a longer process than it should be. I am for opening it up slightly, but having lived outside the US for 3 years, I can tell you for a fact that if we open it up and make it easier, we're gonna get swamped in a heartbeat. There's no doubt about it. And the problem is, it's very very difficult to perform adequate background checks on people from other countries. They just don't have the same kind of system we're blessed with here, with VICAP and all the computerized criminal databases, etc.

As for the current illegals, I just don't see that rewarding them for breaking our laws is the right way to go. Making them go back home and re-apply for a temporary work visa is a good idea, but I just think that when that Visa is up, they're going to skip anyways and just be illegal again. I honestly don't believe many of these people ever want to go back 'home' for good.