New Soundstream Reference Amp Same As The Old?

[whatsinaname 10+ year member]

I noticed that Soundstream has a Reference Amp Line out. I read that they are built to the same specs as the original Soundstream Reference amps (I used to have 3 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif)

Here was my email to Soundstream....

I was just wondering how the new reference series amplifiers (2.370 & 1.500) compares to the original (power output, relays, power supply, etc)?

I used to compete in IASCA back in 96 & 97 and ran a Reference 500 and two Reference 300 amps as well as SS6.1, SS511 and two SS10R subs. I have lots of trophies!!

Thanks

PS - I still have my old Soundstream Granite 180.6 amp and it is still going strong in my daily driver powering 4 speakers and one sub!!!

Here was the reply from Chuck Kenney (National Sales Manager for Soundstream)...

They are better due to newer better technology………

Just wondering if indeed the new Reference line is going to be any good. Wouldn't mind running them if they are.....

Click to read more...

 

[Shinju 10+ year member]

Buy one, Run it, play with it, Come back and write us a review.

They do look sweet, I have ran several blue boxes in my time never once had an issue with any of them.

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

Here was the reply from Chuck Kenney (National Sales Manager for Soundstream)...
They are better due to newer better technology………

Just wondering if indeed the new Reference line is going to be any good. Wouldn't mind running them if they are.....

Depends on which Reference series by Soundstream you are referring to. The original Reference amplifiers were overbuilt tanks. The S and Sx series were hit or miss, thus dubbing them the "Smokestream" edition.

I would like to know what "newer, better, technology" Chuck Kenney is referring to with regards to an overall Class AB design that hasn't changed all that much since the 80s After all, the Soundstream brand name is owned by Epsilon Electronics, Inc. who brings you other high quality amplifiers such as Kole Audio, SPL Audio, and Power Acoustik.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Then again, I am interested to see with Epsilon Electronics, Inc. does with the PPI name that they purchased from DEI.

 

[whatsinaname 10+ year member]

Depends on which Reference series by Soundstream you are referring to. The original Reference amplifiers were overbuilt tanks. The S and Sx series were hit or miss, thus dubbing them the "Smokestream" edition.

My email to Chuck....

Are you referring then to the original Reference series or the S and Sx series?

His response (via blackberry)...

Original....

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

With the Reference S and Sx series, Soundstream management wanted MORE power but didn't want to increase the cost of production to do so. The original Reference 500 became a Reference 700s and later on the 700sx.

I've posted this before, but this circuit board:

is in this amplifier:

It is nice to see that Soundstream is trying to return back to their roots. Unfortunately, it is a little too late //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif The first Rubicon series that followed the disastrous Reference s and sx line was actually a great amplifier but far too many of Soundstream's customers were burned that they moved on to another product.

Come to think about it, I should have purchased one of those Pink Soundstream amps for my girlfriend's install. Instead, I purchased her a Cerwin Vega EXL 400.4....

 

[dave_damage 10+ year member]

This is from my Boy over at Soundstream

Why would you want that? Do you realize that Ebay is one of the key factors that destroyed many of the high end products. We all have to make products cheaper for guys who refuse to pay appropriate prices for high end equipment. For example. A badass amp back in the day cost $500. It ends up on Ebay for $300. Now the manufacturer has to make it cheaper and lower quality just so they can make money. Do you realize that at CES for 2010, Audiobahn is obviously out of business, Rockford has not been there for 3 years, Kicker is going to debut their home audio and will not even be in the hall with the car audio guys, JL probably will not show, etc...
Eventually, if Ebayers and transhippers keep doing their thing, all high end brand will come to and end and all you'll get is nee crap coming out until Ebay ruins it and it becomes no longer profitable.

Alpin just went into Future Shops in Canada. Also in Best Buy and Audio 2001. Every person I talked to during my last trip said that they cannot make more than 18 points, typically 8-10 points. Soundstream is one of the only companies that is not sold at Crutchfield, at Best Buy or any other mass marchant. We have stayed true to our customers and are the only company that can offer hot source units with the same ARM9 chip that is in the iTouch and iPhone and our customers can make 40-45 points!

We are doing everything we can to help the industry,not hurt it. I can tell you this, while I am okay with our couple of online customers, if it does end up on Ebay, brand new for dirt cheap, I will kill the line and close it all out! If people want high end, then they need to support the manufacturers for making it.

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate you wanting a good price, but the new ones are less than a 10th of the old model on a $ per watt ratio. I like a good deal too and wish I could buy a new Jeep online for cheap, but the ones online really are not that great of a deal.

After a decade of being out of production, I really hope people can appreciate the painstaking measures we went through to bring everybody a new Reference series that is light years better than the originals! Yes, BETTER!!! It would be a shame to watch it be ruined by the very people that wanted it. But that is the American way, right?

I hope you find a great deal, but I pray it is not on eBay. Our contract with Net Enforcers is in full effect and they have been advised that this is the most critical of all of our products.

Cheers

The brick and mortar sore are what keep us in business, not the few harmful sales on Ebay.
When a $500 amps sells for $300 on Ebay, a store will not buy it for $250 since they will not make any money. So a few people get a great deal, but then the line disappears.

So you really think everything should be *****d out online? I guess if a person is an enthusiats, they do not wany topay retail prices. Nobody does. But it this reason that so many company have come and gone. Look at Directed. They killed PPI. We bought it and I an working hard on it now. They dropped video which is a bad sign, but good for us. Orion is not what is used to be. I hope you can respectfully appreciate my point of view and I can with yours.

Sorry to hear that you did not like the Rubicon. The fact is that the nerws oness have better specs that the old ones, regardless of ratings. If you do not like the new technologies, don;t spend your money on a new Reference. I doubt you'll like that either as it is truly light years more advanced thanthe originals. They are smarter, WAY CLEANER, and all of the stupid BS is gone...

Its all good man. The new REFs are as good as it is going to get as far as brining back the old stuff, for now. Don't think we can do any better! Know what you mean about forums. I got away from them in 98 when I left MTX and stayed away until last week. I hate the primadonna little ***** kids whop think they know everything. After 26 years, and studying under one of the last living gurus of audio, I realize that I know jack shit! if it gets like that around here, I'm gone! But you'll alwasy know where to find me for some cool "old guy" talk! ;^)

 

[Blazemore 10+ year member]

There was two points that worried me in that thread.

1.

Sorry to hear that you did not like the Rubicon. The fact is that the nerws oness have better specs that the old ones, regardless of ratings. If you do not like the new technologies, don;t spend your money on a new Reference. I doubt you'll like that either as it is truly light years more advanced thanthe originals. They are smarter, WAY CLEANER, and all of the stupid BS is gone...

To me it seemed the new Rubicons didn't live up to the specs posted. Although this was from one user review and no test data was done. The user was looking to sell the amp faster than he got it. Also one could augured the quality of components used. Still bothered that is just a rebadged amp trying to sell under an old name.

2. Why didn't Grizz post Ref. gut pics to show the hard work that was done? This could promote the new line and get people interest back in to the brand again.

 

[mmouse57 10+ year member]

the new ref series is awsome 'not talking about rubicons now'

I have installed a ref11000 running at 1.6ohms and a ref4.902 'running 2 channel both channels of the 4 channels in mono playing stereo at 2ohms' running 3 w0 jl 12's and 2 sets of polk audio highs and it just screams. SQ is awsomer and a quick pop of the back plates shows a great pcb layout and quality parts used. 'deff not like some cheap amps where oyu open the back and you see a ratoln a wheel making dc current' lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

deff as good or better as the old ref500 i used ot run back in 1990's //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Blazemore 10+ year member]

the new ref series is awsome 'not talking about rubicons now'
I have installed a ref11000 running at 1.6ohms and a ref4.902 'running 2 channel both channels of the 4 channels in mono playing stereo at 2ohms' running 3 w0 jl 12's and 2 sets of polk audio highs and it just screams. SQ is awsomer and a quick pop of the back plates shows a great pcb layout and quality parts used. 'deff not like some cheap amps where oyu open the back and you see a ratoln a wheel making dc current' lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

deff as good or better as the old ref500 i used ot run back in 1990's //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Can you post gut pics for us to see?

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

There was two points that worried me in that thread.
1.

To me it seemed the new Rubicons didn't live up to the specs posted. Although this was from one user review and no test data was done. The user was looking to sell the amp faster than he got it. Also one could augured the quality of components used. Still bothered that is just a rebadged amp trying to sell under an old name.

2. Why didn't Grizz post Ref. gut pics to show the hard work that was done? This could promote the new line and get people interest back in to the brand again.

I call BS on his BS:laugh:

I am sure the reason he will cite for NOT posting the internals of the new amplifiers is that we, as non-engineers, wouldn't understand the technological advances by merely looking at the components:crap://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

That is kind of like a certain other company from Las Vegas that gets pissed when someone posts a photo of his circuit boards... They will remain nameless for the time being because I see no reason to bring Zuki into this discussion:crazy://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[mmouse57 10+ year member]

like the ref1.1000

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Soundstream_Picasso_PCA1000D/

like the ref4.920

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Soundstream_Reference_800.4/

bascialy like this but a bigger cap bank 'not the small little yellow caps like in this pic

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Soundstream_Reference_604/

but as in the other two above give me till this weekend and ill snap some pics of this trunk since both amps are inverted wiht the guts showing

 

[(((BOOM))) 10+ year member]

meh, soundstream in name only.

 

[Blazemore 10+ year member]

like the ref1.1000http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Soundstream_Picasso_PCA1000D/

like the ref4.920

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Soundstream_Reference_800.4/

bascialy like this but a bigger cap bank 'not the small little yellow caps like in this pic

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Soundstream_Reference_604/

but as in the other two above give me till this weekend and ill snap some pics of this trunk since both amps are inverted wiht the guts showing

Cool, thanks...post back with some pics, love to see what's truly under the hood. There's a big difference between that Picasso and the older Ref.

 

[Blazemore 10+ year member]

That is kind of like a certain other company from Las Vegas that gets pissed when someone posts a photo of his circuit boards... They will remain nameless for the time being because I see no reason to bring Zuki into this discussion:crazy://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

True but it seems to have pasted for now. Zuki's amps are nice thou...few things I personaly would change...over all a great amp from reviews.

Type "R" edition //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[dave_damage 10+ year member]

the new ref series is awsome 'not talking about rubicons now'
I have installed a ref11000 running at 1.6ohms and a ref4.902 'running 2 channel both channels of the 4 channels in mono playing stereo at 2ohms' running 3 w0 jl 12's and 2 sets of polk audio highs and it just screams. SQ is awsomer and a quick pop of the back plates shows a great pcb layout and quality parts used. 'deff not like some cheap amps where oyu open the back and you see a ratoln a wheel making dc current' lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

deff as good or better as the old ref500 i used ot run back in 1990's //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Wow, must be cool knowing your are the only person in the world that has installed a Ref1.1000 considering they are not even released yet. The only ones that are out now are the REF2.370,REF2.640,REF4.400 and REF4.760 the REF4.920,REF1.500 and REF1.1000 are not even on American Soil yet.