Myths about amp gain settings

[alvitae 10+ year member]

I turn it up till the decibel meter stops rising then back it off just a bit. Right or wrong its what im after so it works for me.

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

Okay so correct me if Im wrong, but I (along with probably everyone else) have songs on my hard drive that are louder than others. I dont remember which ones these are. Using a DMM/OS, wouldnt I need to recalibrate my system everytime I changed songs because some songs will produce a higher preout voltage than other songs at the same volume? That seems like a futile process...but hey like I said I could be wrong.

The 0 dB test tone is there only to get you at a ball park figure when using a DMM.

Music is DYNAMIC in nature and some material is recorded at a hotter, or higher RMS level than other material and the EQ used in mastering differs between tracks, artists, genres, etc. To say that you wouldn't have to adjust your volume, settings, etc. between songs is crazy because no two tracks are recorded at the same level or mastered the same.

Now, if you were playing test tones at competitions, that would be a different story

 

[endofdays89 5,000+ posts]

see, this is why i want to know exactly when my head unit pre outs clip. I have the gains set to have a max volume of about 4562 on my head unit. But the problem is that i don't know when the pre outs clip, some people say around 90% for most head units. But where the hell is there any proof of this. I don't want to clip the amps buy sending a clipped signal from the pre outs. This is the only problem i have with setting gains. And last time i checked, 45/62 is only around 75% percent, but if the preouts clip at 90%, then i could get louder

 

[Zip_Loc 10+ year member]

this is were you need to use a program to equal the files loudness level. I use itunes to do this. But yeah, if the file is significantly louder than you will be pushing the system way past it's limits at loud volumes. I have ran into some of those files on limewire and just choose not to download them.

Ah nice thank you. I was always wary of clicking that button but it makes sense now.

Do subs actually give a chit if they are sent a clipped signal? I mean they dont have feelings, desires to play perfect SQ, ect. Its just a movement of a cone in relation to a signal, clipped or not. Isnt the real problem the power increase FROM a clipped signal? And like a VGT turbo failure, wouldnt that extra power increase be like really obvious to the ear? Im not exactly sure, and could be wrong, but it seems like alot of this is common sense and there isnt a need to get really technical. Hell, 90 percent of the time youre not close to listening at levels significant enough to even introduce clipping into the equation right?

 

[eharri3 10+ year member]

I find I like to do it text book style with components. With the sub, not so much so. It can be hit or miss with the textbook methods. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes the rest of the system has gotten quite loud and quite clear and the sub is still only barely starting to move. I prefer a bit of overlap with my sub amp, so it bumps at normal listening levels and if I have anything playing that I know will put it closer to clipping I just keep the volume lowered.

In an ideal world, maybe for the next build, just to take the rocket science out of it I'll throw 50-60% more power at all my drivers than they really need and get a 5 or 6 volt head unit with amps with a 5-6 volt input sensitivity range so I can just adjust everything a tiny bit off the minimum then go to absolute minimum for anything that overpowers the rest of the music.

Ive read that guy's site before. He's actually not too far off his rocker, it just sounds like he is the way he's phrasing it. Do whatever you want with 0 decible sine waves, DMM, o-scope, whatever, but if that means you will have clean undistorted volume up to 60 but it's not nearly as loud as you want it at your normal listening level and you're not one to crank it all the time you won't be happy. Nothing wrong with getting a little aggressive with it if it gives you the loudness you want at a normal listening level and you are careful with the volume dial. That last part is where people get themselves into trouble, cranking gain AND volume too.

 

[gunz4me 10+ year member]

Ah nice thank you. I was always wary of clicking that button but it makes sense now.
Do subs actually give a chit if they are sent a clipped signal? I mean they dont have feelings, desires to play perfect SQ, ect. Its just a movement of a cone in relation to a signal, clipped or not. Isnt the real problem the power increase FROM a clipped signal? And like a VGT turbo failure, wouldnt that extra power increase be like really obvious to the ear? Im not exactly sure, and could be wrong, but it seems like alot of this is common sense and there isnt a need to get really technical. Hell, 90 percent of the time youre not close to listening at levels significant enough to even introduce clipping into the equation right?

Most of us aren't close to placing clipping into the equation, but I am certain that endofdays is an exception to this! After all, he had to crank his gain to 80% in order to obtain 40 volts of output from his Brutus amp that doesn't even make rated output without clipping. Plus his concept of doubling power is a wee bit off the wall.

 

[Zip_Loc 10+ year member]

Most of us aren't close to placing clipping into the equation, but I am certain that endofdays is an exception to this! After all, he had to crank his gain to 80% in order to obtain 40 volts of output from his Brutus amp that doesn't even make rated output without clipping. Plus his concept of doubling power is a wee bit off the wall.

I didnt even realize he wrote that when I quoted it. Ive never seen such a broad spectrum of varying levels of knowledge of car audio over such a short period of time. Its like amnesia.

 

[endofdays89 5,000+ posts]

Most of us aren't close to placing clipping into the equation, but I am certain that endofdays is an exception to this! After all, he had to crank his gain to 80% in order to obtain 40 volts of output from his Brutus amp that doesn't even make rated output without clipping. Plus his concept of doubling power is a wee bit off the wall.

like i said, that brutus is probably never even seeing 1600 watts because of the distortion that kicks in. I bet i am only seeing 1000 watts or less clean signal with it. My type r's would be much happier at 2 ohms each and seeing a much cleaner signal.

 

[muskyhunter567 10+ year member]

i have the brutus amps in some solobarics, there supposed to be at 40v but i run them at 60v at volume 45/62 i only listen to them that loud when i want to show off, they sound fine to the ear, but if i keep it up for 5-10min they start burning, is this clipping or too much power? or who really cares? i set my gear with a dmm and then go back by ear to what i like and then check the dmm again, if its not taht far off, i dont care

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

is this clipping or too much power?

clipping includes there being too much power

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

I didnt even realize he wrote that when I quoted it. Ive never seen such a broad spectrum of varying levels of knowledge of car audio over such a short period of time. Its like amnesia.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

It wont take too long to learn to sift through the bullshit and separate those that know what they are talking about and those that just try and regurgitate nonsense.

 

[muskyhunter567 10+ year member]

my bad, i meant clipped signal coming into the amp, not clipping subwoofers, and this clipping stuff is allways really confusing, ive looked around but its really hard to find a straite anwser, i ussualy just go with the dmm method and stick with that, but at the same time, ive known kids who run mtx's in sledge hammer boxes with all the gains bass boost cranked and they stuff bangs for years? meh

 

[Zip_Loc 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
It wont take too long to learn to sift through the bullshit and separate those that know what they are talking about and those that just try and regurgitate nonsense.

Haha yes sir. Theres a bit too much "oh you fail cuz my s***s marine grade quadruple shrink wrapped" or "oh you fail cuz I dont like the way you didnt properly mix your fiberglass resin" with zero indication that the poster knows how to fiberglass or why the f*** I need to have welding cable instead of regular 1/0.

 

[IDSkoT 5,000+ posts]

Okay so correct me if Im wrong, but I (along with probably everyone else) have songs on my hard drive that are louder than others. I dont remember which ones these are. Using a DMM/OS, wouldnt I need to recalibrate my system everytime I changed songs because some songs will produce a higher preout voltage than other songs at the same volume? That seems like a futile process...but hey like I said I could be wrong.

Some songs are recorded louder than others, but it shouldn't matter too much. They should be in a range that won't damage your drivers too badly.

The 0 dB test tone is there only to get you at a ball park figure when using a DMM.
Music is DYNAMIC in nature and some material is recorded at a hotter, or higher RMS level than other material and the EQ used in mastering differs between tracks, artists, genres, etc. To say that you wouldn't have to adjust your volume, settings, etc. between songs is crazy because no two tracks are recorded at the same level or mastered the same.

Now, if you were playing test tones at competitions, that would be a different

story

Music isn't recorded in terms of W-RMS. It's recorded by dBs.

see, this is why i want to know exactly when my head unit pre outs clip. I have the gains set to have a max volume of about 4562 on my head unit. But the problem is that i don't know when the pre outs clip, some people say around 90% for most head units. But where the hell is there any proof of this. I don't want to clip the amps buy sending a clipped signal from the pre outs. This is the only problem i have with setting gains. And last time i checked, 45/62 is only around 75% percent, but if the preouts clip at 90%, then i could get louder

Pioneers clip pretty high. I've found that mine begins to kind of clip at 50, then actually clips at 55>... I have a DEH-P6900UB.

That's by ear, BTW. So, it might not be awfully accurate.

Ah nice thank you. I was always wary of clicking that button but it makes sense now.
Do subs actually give a chit if they are sent a clipped signal? I mean they dont have feelings, desires to play perfect SQ, ect. Its just a movement of a cone in relation to a signal, clipped or not. Isnt the real problem the power increase FROM a clipped signal? And like a VGT turbo failure, wouldnt that extra power increase be like really obvious to the ear? Im not exactly sure, and could be wrong, but it seems like alot of this is common sense and there isnt a need to get really technical. Hell, 90 percent of the time youre not close to listening at levels significant enough to even introduce clipping into the equation right?

It's time to bust out the visuals....

The wave shown on the right will give the driver more power in a given cycle. Now, your music won't look like this... at all. In nearly any media player, you can get the option of viewing "Scope". That's the signal that it's processing/playing.

Now, while the driver(s) are given this clipped signal, they are exposed to an excess of average power at a given time, heating the coil more than usual. This causes fatigue and lowers the life span of your driver-- it's like over-working a person. They can do it... for a while. Then they just break down and start beating their wives. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

clipping includes there being too much power

Read post above.

This could just be a quote that's taken the wrong way...

But clipping != overpowering.

 

[YourNameHere 10+ year member]

i dunno.... but all i gotta say is endofdays is F*ckin idiot and any newbie who listens to his stupid *** needs to search more...........there's just something about him that just pisses me off