Mag v4 Production complete

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

I know the parameters. Haha, I better know them! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif 'Kinda hard to design a subwoofer without knowing what parameters you want! I just haven't released them.

 

[BLD 25 10+ year member]

oh, ok. that makes me feel better. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Shipped price on the new Mag v4 is $249.00
And even if it was more expensive than that, I'd put the new Mag against the XXX in sound quality in a heartbeat. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif What specs did you want to compare? Xmax? Xmax-wise, no way! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif That motor is a beast - it's amazing the suspensions hold up on those drivers. The XXX is a completely different driver than the new Mag. Designed more for an SPL-generating, long Xmax, high power handling monster that can be ported or sealed (more effective when ported), it's on the far side of the oposite end than the new Mag v4 is. That doesn't really compare to a small box sealed only subwoofer. If you want to compare Le, Fs, Mms, sure, I'm game to compare. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The point of my reply was the competition your sub would be facing if it were in the $400 range. Comparing "SQ" is folly, as you already know. They both are BL optimized drivers, I would expect them to sound very similar actually. And as you mentioned, the XXX has more displacement potential. But then, you've already stated the sub will be $260, so that changes which subs it compares to. THAT price puts it squarely in competition with the CSS SDX series, which is a tough act to follow.
Why would I want to compare specs on a sub that you, and only you, know the specs on? I know a losing battle when I see one. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Cheers.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

The point of my reply was the competition your sub would be facing if it were in the $400 range. Comparing "SQ" is folly, as you already know. They both are BL optimized drivers, I would expect them to sound very similar actually. And as you mentioned, the XXX has more displacement potential. But then, you've already stated the sub will be $260, so that changes which subs it compares to. THAT price puts it squarely in competition with the CSS SDX series, which is a tough act to follow.
Why would I want to compare specs on a sub that you, and only you, know the specs on? I know a losing battle when I see one. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Cheers.

i think you are over looking things. imo the point is there arent many drivers at that price point or even the 400 price point that have the same characteristics as the mag has to offer. Also no one wants a Canadian sub //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif , j/p

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

The point of my reply was the competition your sub would be facing if it were in the $400 range. Comparing "SQ" is folly, as you already know. They both are BL optimized drivers, I would expect them to sound very similar actually. And as you mentioned, the XXX has more displacement potential. But then, you've already stated the sub will be $260, so that changes which subs it compares to. THAT price puts it squarely in competition with the CSS SDX series, which is a tough act to follow.
Why would I want to compare specs on a sub that you, and only you, know the specs on? I know a losing battle when I see one. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Cheers.

Why would you assume that both drivers would sound very similar? Because they're both XBL^2? The two drivers couldn't be more different from one another besides the fact that they use a BL optimized motor. One uses a coil that's over twice as tall (with higher measured and inherent inductance), a compliance that's considerably stiffer, a different cone, different surround, and completely different set of end goals and parameters. The two drivers can and/or will sound different from one another.

The CSS drivers are nice units and I'll be happy to put the new Mag up against them in the SQ realm. When production hits I'm sure someone will buy a Mag that already has a CSS driver and they'll do a comparisson. If not, I'm sure Jim will be willing to do a listening test on a CSS and give his feedback.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Another thing, often overlooked, the Mag is very shallow and very light - that is a critical factor for MANY people these days. Look at how popular compact amps like the Alpine PDX are becoming.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Why would you assume that both drivers would sound very similar? Because they're both XBL^2? The two drivers couldn't be more different from one another besides the fact that they use a BL optimized motor. One uses a coil that's over twice as tall (with higher measured and inherent inductance), a compliance that's considerably stiffer, a different cone, different surround, and completely different set of end goals and parameters. The two drivers can and/or will sound different from one another.
The CSS drivers are nice units and I'll be happy to put the new Mag up against them in the SQ realm. When production hits I'm sure someone will buy a Mag that already has a CSS driver and they'll do a comparisson. If not, I'm sure Jim will be willing to do a listening test on a CSS and give his feedback.

Every BL optimized driver Ive heard had similar sound characteristics, setting aside enclosure differences. No thy dont all sound 'the same', but they certainly sound similar... to my ears at least. Im not sure how much a different cone or surround will alter this. Differences in inductance will likely cause the most difference of the things you mentioned. As for parameters, well again I have to refer to you, as only you know them.
The main advantages I see to your new Mag so far are size/depth, weight, and price/performance ratio. You want to discuss sound quality characteristics and parameters when we both know specs on paper dont necessarily mean much.

How much listening experience do you have with your new Mag so far? Tried different enclosure types/alignments/etc?

The only reason why I brough up the CSS drivers is because you asked who else brings this type of driver to the market at this price point, CSS does, and has been for some time. IMHO you should have that show-down between those two drivers right away.

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

I have heard multiple XBL^2 and other linear BL optimized subwoofers and I think they sound completely different from one another. Each subwoofer I've heard has been engineered differently from the other and have almost nothing in common other than the fact that they all maintain their individual "sound" and keep distortion to a minimum better over stroke compared to standard motor topologies. I suppose that is where a lot of people think they might sound similar - in that they don't distort like normal topologies do. It is odd, but it's pleasantly odd. I'm having a hard time enjoying the bottom end of my music with other subwoofers we have laying around since we tested the bejesus out of the Mag proto.

On the note of all XBL^2 drivers sounding similar here are T/S's from a few XBL^2 drivers:

Re: 3.6, Le:1.8, Fs: 19.2, Qms: 3.65, Qes: 0.44, Qts: 0.39, Vas: 218.44, Cms: 0.25, SD: 790, Xmax 30, BL: 16.5, Mms: 274.8, SPL: 87.3

Fs 34Hz, Qms 2.2, Vas 23.77 litres, Xmax 11.1 mm, SD 127.5 sq cm, Qes .41, Qts .35 Re 6.4 ohms, Le .75 mH, Z 8 ohms,

Fs: 17.1 Hz, Le: 0.87mH, Re: 3.1 Ohms, Qms: 6.88, Qes: .43, Qts: 0.40, Mms: 442g, Cms: 0.19 mm/N, Vas: 383L, Sd: 1182 cm^2, BL: 18.6, X-max: 33mm, 88.4dB/1W/1m

You're saying that all of those drivers will sound similar?

Ryan didn't really want to listen to the new Mag v4 because he didn't like the way that XBL^2 drivers sounded. He has owned a XXX (and I believe a Brahma too) and didn't like the way either one of them sounded. He too said they all had a similar characteristic to them that he didn't like. After testing the new Mag v4 he asked me when they were coming in because he wants one. He's selling his two red claw basket v3 motor'd Mag's to buy at least one new Mag. All of that coming from a guy who, at the time, didn't like XBL^2 motor'd subwoofers. He didn't say that the Mag was going to sound the same before he got it, but he was a little aprehensive about it. What he found out was that the new Mag isn't something that cures cancer or defy's the logic and traditional performance of XBL^2 subwoofers. It's just not a 30+ mm one-way monster.

Myself, Jacob, Chad, Ryan, and Jim have all tried the new Mag in a multiple of different sized enclosures. Myself, Chad, and Jim have all heard it ported...which it wasn't designed to operate in. It still sounded pretty good but power handling got shot to hell due to the soft suspension the Mag v4 has. I knew it was going to perform like that in a ported enclosure before I ever sent it off to Jim and Chad (not only from a design standpoint, but also from a testing standpoint), but I had them throw it in a ported enclosure anyway. The new Mag v4 performs best where it was designed to perform best; in small sealed enclosures for car audio.

IIRC the CSS drivers were designed for, and are being marketed towards, home audio applicaitons. Ie, medium sized sealed and/or vented applications with emphasis on, well, home audio applications. As far as comparing the new Mag to one of the CSS offerings, like I said before, I'm all for it.

But you are right about the advantages that the new Mag v4's offer: weight and depth. The Mag v4 can work in places the XXX could never have thought about working (in small enclosures, thin enclosures, behind the seats of standard cab pickups, etc). Sure it's not an Xmax king, but it does have a phenomenal Xmax-to-mounting-depth ratio. If you want to compare Xmax only, grab a Parthenon.

 

[negative3five 10+ year member]

I also agree that the CSS is the best canidate to go up against the new mag. I own a Adire Brahma MK3 and it's one of the cleanest sounding and loudest drivers I own "OFF" 600 watts. On the other end of the spectrum I own a 05 RE XXX also and "OFF" 1600 watts I can say the same about that driver. I guess what im tryin to say is this mag isn't designed for everyone it's designed for a certain market that isn't widly represent on this forum. Also to all the people that have been knockin the new mag on looks I applaud nick on the new design of the bm and mag and look at it as a step in the right direction for the industry. Everyday I read about people complaining about seeing the same generic shit day in and day out im not knockin anyother company personally I think that the 12 spoke and 4 spoke baskets are very sexy and do what their supposed to very well and the same can be said about nicks basket it does what its supposed to that's it simple as that. Lets step back and see what nicks acomplished wit this driver its very light very shallow and supposed to sound very good in a SMALL box with LITTLE power to me that's were the industry needs to go or we can keep flooding it with the same huge heavy subs wit huge boxes no trunk space and acouple grand in batts alts and wiring. And b4 any1 says anything about me sayin the mag sounds good im sayin that because nick is a very respected person with in this community and I kno he would never create a inferior driver to get over or make more money off his product. Why would he tarnish his name and reputation. I'm backin this up wit the fact that I still own a claw mag and a mag v.3 for a reason. Also y were on the topic of looks everybody shut the **** up about the looks of the newe btl everyones depressed cause its not quad 11" slugs it does what it needs to with less material is a lil shorter and looks completly diff then everyother tripple 9" slug spl motor out their that's what u guys wanted and when u get it u ***** like 12th grade girls that don't like the way their hair turned out for prom. I dunno just my 2 cents everyone has their own opinion and Im happy at what scott and nick are workin towards... thiers gonna be some ninja edits I typed this 5 times on my phone and I kno I missed some things I wanted to say because I keep clearing the whole thing by mistake instead of posting it lol...

 

[bball09124 10+ year member]

Perhaps I missed it, but how small of an enclosure is recommended?

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

Perhaps I missed it, but how small of an enclosure is recommended?

0.8 to 1 ft^3

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Solid product Nick.

Not so much on the unwanted hypeboy though... (bose301s) //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

nG

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

The retardism in the thread is killing my gut...

Nick, as always I look forward to getting my hands on one and taking a listen. Until then Ill just sit here an giggle till I bust my gut.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Judging a product by the basket appearance - Wrong.

Judging a product by the motor topology - Wrong.

Judging a product by the country it was made in - Wrong.

Judging a product by the company's name on the dustcap - Wrong.

Judging a product by the end result (measured and listened) - Right. Anything else is just silly.

The bad thing is that you've got 02parkave against you now and we all know that when he doesn't like something, he won't shut up about it until he's dead. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I think the Exodus stuff is a little bigger competition than the CSS stuff at the moment. Kevin has all sorts of cool things he is always working on, and the Shiva-X is only $135 right now. It is, however, significantly less dressed up and trades off a bit of enclosure size for low frequency extension.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

I want pre-order NOW