just ordered 4 12"l7s(ported/sealed?

[Polecat 5,000+ posts]

I have never commented on the L series output capabilities, Ive only been referring to the SQ qualities.

sorry, maybe I misread what you meant by they have their niche, its just not the output monster AND SQ dream some peope want it to be.
and any SQ car at that level, everyone has their work cut out for them.

But maybe I really don't understand what you mean by that the design lends itself to one aspect of speaker performance, at the expense of another. Yet can do both, stock, run street SPL class, and win SQ...yet can get labeled that it cannot do both, decent, if not very well.... but we'll accept what they do, until our next level of driver comes out. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Oh and the day you learn what I even have for a system is the day I consider taking your opinions/comparisons of it seriously

lol that. hey just on a weird notion how do you think a trunk lid would sound as a woofer? its not very round. about 1.3" of xmax only thing that killed it was heat build up in the motors we used. other than that it sounded pretty tight and had alot of impact. of course it didnt play above 45 hz....

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

sorry, maybe I misread what you meant by they have their niche, its just not the output monster AND SQ dream some peope want it to be.
and any SQ car at that level, everyone has their work cut out for them.

But maybe I really don't understand what you mean by that the design lends itself to one aspect of speaker performance, at the expense of another. Yet can do both, stock, run street SPL class, and win SQ...yet can get labeled that it cannot do both, decent, if not very well.... but we'll accept what they do, until our next level of driver comes out. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

The design lends itseld to output (more cone area) at the expense of SQ (heavier design due to stiffening ribs to keep the square.. well square //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif). I also suspect the corners (needing ribbed surrounds, the uneven stress throughout the cone surface, etc) are at least partly the cause for not seeing a square driver 'keeping up with the jones' in the excursion wars that are so prevailent right now. Whatever the case, there is no arguing that the round cone shape is a naturally stronger than the square shape (in terms of general shapes, not necessarily specific speakers) therefore less mass can be used for the same strength... ie less moving mass for the same strength in round coned subs versus square cones subs. This is not to take away from the square design, but to point out it's design is meant for a purpose: more efficient use of cone area. I see no other real benefit of designing with a square cone versus a round one.

That's where I derive the theory of output at the expense of SQ. That isn't to say a square sub can't be made to sound good (given the proper installation, environment, etc). But all designers know a complete design is their best accumulation of compromises. The square shape's benefit is efficiency of cone area, but there are downsides too. Someone could equally argue round subs don't use cone area efficiently, that wouldn't be someone making the arguement that round subs cannot get loud.

 

[Polecat 5,000+ posts]

I disagree that a cone of a round sub, just because of it's shape yields a better overall performance value There are too many lame round subs, and many lame copy sqaure subs. True, the Sd is more on the square, but it took a ton of engineering to get the ribs just right to make a linear movement. Hence, the patent.

Xmax wars mean nothing when you can compare woofers to a point. Because there are too many factors involved as well. Like power, vehicle energy supply, user, power compression. Driving a sub full tilt overtime will sound, well, bad. So more displacement has too many variables.

SQ, other than 'lanes' is user subjective. And I don't say that the L7, or any other driver is better at this or that, just that when people say woofer X doesn't have good SQ, first, I look at driver brand, and then other variables. Like power, box, placement,etc,etc.

While we can agree that the woofer was designed for more Sd, or more output with a given size, it can do that, yet have great SQ.

Because there are too many round subs with HUGE phat surrounds that state they can do 'X' Xmax, yet sound trashy no matetr how you install them. But sure makes for a great selling point. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well I had a nice long reply typed out, then the server decided to hiccup while I was hitting the reply. *poof*

Let me just sum up that I didn't say a square coned sub could not be made to sound good, nor did I say (or mean to imply) that a round sub would inheritantly sound better. I agree there are tons of crappy sounding round subs. But, if you sat a speaker designer down and asked him to build a 'SQ' sub, would he start with a lighter round cone, or a heavier square one? I think the answer is obvious. But again, that's not to say a square can't sound good, but it is to say the design lends itself to something else, at the compromise of SQ performance. A list of SQ winners does not dis-prove this.

Lastly, dont take this as bashing kicker or squares. Like Ive said, they fill their niche (the squares), and Kicker has and still does make some very fine products. Im just looking forward to you guys coming out with something a little more SQ oriented, a little more... round. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Cheers.

 

[Polecat 5,000+ posts]

you never know what we'll do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Nukedsodapop 5,000+ posts]

Tracy, You're a tease. lol

 

[Polecat 5,000+ posts]

Tracy, You're a tease. lol

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