IMHO GOD > Evolution

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Since you made an error already, I'll ignore the rest for now.
You said "beginning" of time as if there was a time when there was no time which is a contradiction, this is an error in your logic -- anything you say afterwards is based on a flawed premise and therefore is to be discarded.

You can't get anywhere with this, ever. It's been tried for thousands of years. Just for a little background -- I've studied Christianity, read the entire bible and studied the history of it, studied Eastern religions, other Western religions, own some of those texts, and have studied Philosophy heavily in College and almost decided to major in it -- I'm very familiar with almost every major argument for and against the existence of God posed for the last few thousand years.

And before you think I'm totally on the other side of the fence I wrote a research paper on why Bertrand Russel's, "Why I am not a Christian" is a heavily flawed position =) I haven't stated my position in the whole thread, and I'm still not going to -- thats not the point. The point is that trying to understand anything outside the bounds of 4D time-space is impossible for our brains. If you want to "believe" something outside of these bounds it will have to be nothing but faith, and faith alone -- logic is of no use to you whatsoever, so my technicality is that you don't try to give yourself the illusion that it does //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

granted my words are flawed but the idea isn't... the concept still stands that time emerged from no time by some means... all though it can't be imagined it HAS to be accepted, otherwise the universe could not exist....

i didn't say there was a time when there was no time... i said that time has a beginning... which it must... for time not to have a beginning, the universe couldn't exsist... and a force outside of time CAUSED time to begin... again granted the mechanics of this idea are un-imagineable but can't be rejected because doing so would make the formation of the universe impossible...

you can't explain why green looks the way it does... no matter how hard you try science will never explain why that specific wave length looks (as you percieve it to be) green... but it is accepted never-the-less...

when something makes logical sence, it's foolish not to believe it only because you can't PROVE it...

nothing can be proven without a doubt... but everything you believe is a result of faith... you have more faith than many christians do in god by sitting in your chair

while the technicallity of imagineing a creator of time is not grasp-able...

even more-so is the technicallity of imagineing no creator of time...

granted the logic is flawed, but the logic is ALWAYS somewhat flawed in everything... but it does bring you to a point that is above ignorance to make an educated decision

believing in something close to right but flawed, is better than believing nothing at all

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

and i think i know a little bit more where you are coming from... you are saying that i will never definitively be able to provide myself or anyone with completely logical evidence to believe in, this is true

it is when it comes down to it purely a matter of faith...

but even flawed logic can give me a better idea about it...

i need no logic to look at the universe and its impossible intricacy and inter-dependance and say there must be a god...

while there is no evidence supporting my claim, it is never-the-less a much greater possibility than the perfect order of the universe erupting out of nothing from pure chance... chance so infinitely small that numbers cant even express them...

so i guess from your point of view you're right... (my FAITH derived from my extremely limited knowledge and consistently neccesary flawed logic, says that there is a 100% chance of intelligent design and almost no chance of the lack there-of)

 

[HeatSeeker 10+ year member]

i didn't say there was a time when there was no time... i said that time has a beginning... which it must... for time not to have a beginning, the universe couldn't exsist... and a force outside of time CAUSED time to begin... again granted the mechanics of this idea are un-imagineable but can't be rejected because doing so would make the formation of the universe impossible...

and the "proof" or "logic" of this lies where? how exactly did you come about this information?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

and the "proof" or "logic" of this lies where? how exactly did you come about this information?

haven't you been listening to the whole arguement? nothing is absolutely logical, nothing can be completely proven... but because it is completly illogical to think that the universe came from nothing, i must logically think the universe came from something

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

My agnostic stint is over. Back to full blown atheism...borderline what Colin McGinn calls anti-theism.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

good to have you back.

 

[Pootie 10+ year member]

To even make a thread like this deserves //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/ban.gif.ce8465566702ef9f72e97e794ed1c86a.gif

 

[adio 5,000+ posts]

so u thought this was a good idea to bump this back from the dead?

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

so u thought this was a good idea to bump this back from the dead?

His coming back to atheism is well deserving of bringing this thread back. It is the best reason of all. Should ha have just made a new thread stating this?

Go cry about watermelon and stfu //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

good to have you back.

x2

 

[Grinder1989 5,000+ posts]

Cotjones would start a thread like this. Bible = Bullshit converted to text. That is all.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Cotjones would start a thread like this. Bible = Bullshit converted to text. That is all.

I wouldn't call it all BS. I think there are certainly some good points...against theft, murder, adultry, etc.

 

[dman4486 5,000+ posts]

god was a woman

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

My agnostic stint is over. Back to full blown atheism...borderline what Colin McGinn calls anti-theism.

Right with you on that one.

Time doesn't start or stop, it's an illusion. You cannot make time. You cannot take back time. You only can manage The Self within it.

As Alan Watts says, the Universe plays hide and seek with itself. There is no God that control's anything, unless you want to say the God creates chaos and evolution is the result of it.

God is not > then everything. If that were the case, God would be > God. Best thing to do is to drop this whole God nonsense all together, because it's not getting us anywhere.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

My agnostic stint is over. Back to full blown atheism...borderline what Colin McGinn calls anti-theism.

Yay!

It's about damned time //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif