IMHO GOD > Evolution

[iceteebone 5,000+ posts]

ya'll both are racism.

I'm not racist, I own a black ipod. It quit working though today. I bet if it was the white one it wouldn't have quit however.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Since nobody caught what I said earlier on page 11...
---

"I only read the first page... but here is something that wasn't mentioned that I have come to realize.

Humans have a problem thinking about anything other than what we can perceive. This means 4 dimensional time / space. To us, everything has a place in time and space, and that is how it is. This is where the whole debate goes wrong, "WHEN did it start?" -- "What was there BEFORE?"

That is not even a valid question to ask. Time is a dimension that came about along with all of the other spatial dimensions (and the other 7 or more per string theory). There was no time to ask the question, "What was here before the big bang?" or "When did the big bang happen?"

It never happened... not in time... not in space... not in any dimension... not in any way we can possibly conceive of with our minds. We cannot even begin to even consider or imagine an "event" (I can't even use this word) that didn't "happen" in time OR space. To our brains we just assume that it had to happen some time or somewhere... but it didn't, there was no time and there was nowhere for it to "happen" as in an event we can understand.

Wrap your mind around that... people have been asking the wrong question since mankind came to be.

... I could go on, but I think that is sufficient to get you guys thinking."

---

Even if God exists... we can't understand how he exists, as he would exist outside of time and space as those were "created" at the "beginning" (and again, these are the wrong words as they imply a time domain) -- therefore making him something that we cannot possibly comprehend in any way no matter how hard we try. I won't put out my opinion on God here -- you can draw you own conclusions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

We caught it...just too deep to respond.

It's more fun to make fun rather than a philosophical discussion.

But I am more than serious about the 5/6 channel amps on diyma.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I'm not racist, I own a black ipod. It quit working though today. I bet if it was the white one it wouldn't have quit however.

you still is racism.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

We caught it...just too deep to respond.
It's more fun to make fun rather than a philosophical discussion.

But I am more than serious about the 5/6 channel amps on diyma.

Me too, investigating the full-range Class-D option as we speak... send around a few e-mails this morning about it!

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

But I am more than serious about the 5/6 channel amps on diyma.

x2. That would be GODLY of you, Jacob!

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

i haven't read half of these posts, but i still don't see how anyone says its possible for a god not to exists... maby i just see it differently...

forget about the bible for a minute, if you never once looked at the bible you could still know there is a god, thats why EVERY civilization has believed in a god...

but everything comes from something else... science supports this... yet science does not support how it's possible for the universe to exist following this rule...

the only logical explanation is that at the beginning of all causeation is a force the finger that knows over the first domino...

now most evolutionists will tell you that this force is some mysteriously undefined and PURELY theoretical "big bang"...

again this is illogical because if the force is simply a process, then it must have a reason for being started. (the domino can fall on its own something must push it)

a completely logical explanation is that a CONSCIOUS being MUST EXIST or at least HAVE existed to set forth the events resulting in the formation of the universe...

are babies born into the world by some mysterious force which makes them appear from no-where? NO, a conscious, or rather 2 conscious beings make the DECISION to creat them...

so that said, we know there must be a conscious initiator, now lets define him...

EVERYTHING must have a cause in time and space. but outside of time and space it would not, after all outside of time there can be no cause and effect because the very term "CAUSE AND EFFECT" is based in terms of time (a cause before, and an effect after)

so now we know that in order for our god to exist he must be outside of time otherwise he would have to have a cause...

and some of you act as if that's completely horse-shit to say you can be outside of time... is it? a space shuttle orbiting earth has less time on its clock than one on earth... even curious-er that god has MANY times been descibed as light...

in the bible God is "THE SOURCE OF LIGHT IN HEAVEN"

light travels at the speed of light (of course) and it is very widely estimated that at the speed of light, time stops!

so again the way i see it, it's impossible for an omnipotent god to not exist, just from the evidence i see in the universe

and i'm one to admit, i hate church, i think the same as many of you, that it's a rumor that has been passed around to keep people behaving, yet i cannot argue that there is not a god and call myself sane...

i do believe that the concepts found in the bible are the closest to true out there, but i'm still causious of them bacause the were written my failable man...

in short i call myself a buddhist-christian only because i believe there is truth to the bible, but i will never be happy untill i find the absolute truth

 

[MorningWood]

Since nobody caught what I said earlier on page 11...
---

"I only read the first page... but here is something that wasn't mentioned that I have come to realize.

Humans have a problem thinking about anything other than what we can perceive. This means 4 dimensional time / space. To us, everything has a place in time and space, and that is how it is. This is where the whole debate goes wrong, "WHEN did it start?" -- "What was there BEFORE?"

That is not even a valid question to ask. Time is a dimension that came about along with all of the other spatial dimensions (and the other 7 or more per string theory). There was no time to ask the question, "What was here before the big bang?" or "When did the big bang happen?"

It never happened... not in time... not in space... not in any dimension... not in any way we can possibly conceive of with our minds. We cannot even begin to even consider or imagine an "event" (I can't even use this word) that didn't "happen" in time OR space. To our brains we just assume that it had to happen some time or somewhere... but it didn't, there was no time and there was nowhere for it to "happen" as in an event we can understand.

Wrap your mind around that... people have been asking the wrong question since mankind came to be.

... I could go on, but I think that is sufficient to get you guys thinking."

---

Even if God exists... we can't understand how he exists, as he would exist outside of time and space as those were "created" at the "beginning" (and again, these are the wrong words as they imply a time domain) -- therefore making him something that we cannot possibly comprehend in any way no matter how hard we try. I won't put out my opinion on God here -- you can draw you own conclusions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Man, you sho do talk some shit.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

cotjones,

Refer to my post... you have a fundamental mis-understanding of the question you are trying to ask. Causation means nothing without time domain... time was not "there" so to speak. Anything you know or can conceive of means nothing to the "beginning" of the Universe.

Everything you said highlighted the problem people have had for thousands of years... assuming cause and effect always applies... assuming time and space always were.

 

[DownSouth954 10+ year member]

The concept of a Judeo-Christian god or any god for matter is just absurd. So is the premise for Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. Sheesh.

Oh yeah, imho //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Me too, investigating the full-range Class-D option as we speak... send around a few e-mails this morning about it!

I would shoot more for an eD killer than an Audison killer.

I also wouldn't concern myself with the Made in the USA idea. I just think people are too price sensitive to move many units...and among SQers "Made in Germany / Italy" has a more quality feel than "Made in the USA".

Get it made in Korea, but it in a small case and watch them move.

I am iffy on the crossover functions. If you could do what I was asking about getting everything to work off a single pair of inputs (like connect the Mac or Nak models with just a single pair of preouts) then then get crossovers...I don't think too many people would go active using the amps crossovers.

I doubt there would be a very big market for the proposed 7 channel. 5 channel, much more so.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

cotjones,
Refer to my post... you have a fundamental mis-understanding of the question you are trying to ask. Causation means nothing without time domain... time was not "there" so to speak. Anything you know or can conceive of means nothing to the "beginning" of the Universe.

Everything you said highlighted the problem people have had for thousands of years... assuming cause and effect always applies... assuming time and space always were.

Cot...

Go to wikipedia and search Granger Causality. It will help explain what he is trying to say. Also, hope you are good a math and stats to help you understand the concepts.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

cotjones,
Refer to my post... you have a fundamental mis-understanding of the question you are trying to ask. Causation means nothing without time domain... time was not "there" so to speak. Anything you know or can conceive of means nothing to the "beginning" of the Universe.

Everything you said highlighted the problem people have had for thousands of years... assuming cause and effect always applies... assuming time and space always were.

no i know exactly what you are saying thats why i said the force that began the universe must be outside time, read my post again...

but like i said there had to be a conscious being outside time and space for it to be possible, because even outside time it's impossible (actually even more impossible) for something to happen without a cause outside of time the only possible cause is a conscious decision. or "will" because technically the eternal being would allways (outside of time) have the will to creat the universe

 

[MorningWood]

I would shoot more for an eD killer than an Audison killer.
I also wouldn't concern myself with the Made in the USA idea. I just think people are too price sensitive to move many units...and among SQers "Made in Germany / Italy" has a more quality feel than "Made in the USA".

Get it made in Korea, but it in a small case and watch them move.

I am iffy on the crossover functions. If you could do what I was asking about getting everything to work off a single pair of inputs (like connect the Mac or Nak models with just a single pair of preouts) then then get crossovers...I don't think too many people would go active using the amps crossovers.

I doubt there would be a very big market for the proposed 7 channel. 5 channel, much more so.

3 channel, 5 tops

 

[2kchevy06civic 5,000+ posts]

I'm here for the 5 channel amp, link to said amp plz? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

no i know exactly what you are saying thats why i said the force that began the universe must be outside time, read my post again...
but like i said there had to be a conscious being outside time and space for it to be possible, because even outside time it's impossible (actually even more impossible) for something to happen without a cause outside of time the only possible cause is a conscious decision. or "will" because technically the eternal being would allways (outside of time) have the will to creat the universe

You are still not quite on the right track.

You are thinking of things "happening" -- define that word. It means something that wasn't going on is now going on, it is in the process of "happening" -- meaning that an event in space is occurring through time. How can you say that something happened when there was no time and no space?

Even by giving the "creator" a sense of "always" you once again violate the lack of time domain. Even the name "creator" or "eternal being" implies the time domain... as in "creating" something or "always existing" -- as in eternal.

The simple answer here is that you, I, and everyone else cannot EVER understand or even think about such things. Any way that we can discuss or ponder the situation is wrong, as we think of things in 4 dimensional time and space, period. This is just how our brain is made, because we exist and experience 4 dimensional time space and nothing else.