Home Theater suggestions please

[ant1024 10+ year member]

Looking to build a dedicated theater room in the basement, need some advice on a 5.1 set up.

Any reccomendations budget price for speakers $1,200

and $1,200 for a receiver.

Click to read more...

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Do you want to DIY or not?

The good news if you plan on making this mostly theater dedicated is you can do each speaker exactly the same and don't have to spend more an you L&R channels like in a Stereo dedicated system.

What I would recommend is 4 good quality bookshelf speakers (2-Way I would imagine) and a matching center channel using the same components so it is voiced the same. THen of course a theater system wouldn't be complete with out a subwoofer. Which I would do sealed and in the 12" range of things.

As for which projects/speakers to choose, that relies more on your taste than anything. There literally 1000's of 2-way bookshelf designs out there. Some places to look would be on Madisounds kits page, parts express, & Zaph's web page.

If you are more brave you could even tackle the task of designing and making your own. But, that is a long road rarely walked correctly with many pot holes and pit falls.

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

Do you want to DIY or not?
The good news if you plan on making this mostly theater dedicated is you can do each speaker exactly the same and don't have to spend more an you L&R channels like in a Stereo dedicated system.

What I would recommend is 4 good quality bookshelf speakers (2-Way I would imagine) and a matching center channel using the same components so it is voiced the same. THen of course a theater system wouldn't be complete with out a subwoofer. Which I would do sealed and in the 12" range of things.

As for which projects/speakers to choose, that relies more on your taste than anything. There literally 1000's of 2-way bookshelf designs out there. Some places to look would be on Madisounds kits page, parts express, & Zaph's web page.

If you are more brave you could even tackle the task of designing and making your own. But, that is a long road rarely walked correctly with many pot holes and pit falls.

That is exactly what I did, and my system sounds better than most that cost twice as much. I am surprised, but for $1200 from a prepackaged system they don't sound very good and have very weak subs. I got alot more bang for my buck by peicing together the parts.

I have 5 Polk bookshelf 6.5" speakers (about $125 each) and a sub I assembled from PartsExpress driven by a mid level Onkyo reciever. For the budget the OP describes he could do alot better than I did. Just spend more on each speaker and a higher end reciever. I can recommend the 12" or 15" Titanic Sub kit from PartsExpress.

Ironically the protocol for surround sound actually calls for all speakers to be identical, but most prefab systems come with a funky center channel that looks better under, or on top of the t.v.. It actually should be identical to the others. It's not a big issue, either way is fine.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

No the center shouldn't actually be the same. It needs to reproduce voices first and foremost and is designed to do that. Your other speakers aren't nearly as vital. Without question, a center and subwoofer will either make or break a home theatre.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

No the center shouldn't actually be the same. It needs to reproduce voices first and foremost and is designed to do that. Your other speakers aren't nearly as vital. Without question, a center and subwoofer will either make or break a home theatre.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that the center channel and the subwoofer do make a Home Theater system either excellent or mediocre. L&R and the surrounds major duty is usually music and effects. However, it is true that all the speakers should be very similar in sound and design.

All properly designed loudspeakers should reproduce voice well. If they don't then what is the point? You wouldn't use a guitar stack as you left and right channels. The goal, for me at least, is the have loudspeakers that neither add nor subtract anything from the recorded sound. Voice will, should, and does on many movies (especially Blue-Ray) come out of almost all of the channels. And since the human ear is exceptionally good at picking up differences in voice all the channels should sound exactly the same. Except of course of the subwoofer. If you want to test this some time watch the 2nd or 3rd Lord of the Rings and see if you can hear the tracking of the voice.

Anyway, my opinion of the whole "the center channel is only for voice" argument is it is said so people can cheap out and get a speakers that aren't designed for proper operation but purchase a lower quality design that is only tweeked for the 'voice' bands, aka uses cheaper drivers.

It only makes sense that any good loudspeaker design should produce voice rather well.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

That's not what I meant though. I didn't mean to imply that the other speakers should be lacking in vocal quality, but the center is what handles most of the voices unless it's music. With that said, you typically see centers with multiple midrange drivers when the fronts have a different design. Strong vocal clarity is essential and having 5 of the same speakers just doesn't seem to work.

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

No the center shouldn't actually be the same. It needs to reproduce voices first and foremost and is designed to do that. Your other speakers aren't nearly as vital. Without question, a center and subwoofer will either make or break a home theatre.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

What kind of speakers should I get for an all-new Dolby Digital system?

The ideal Dolby Digital playback system uses identical full-range speakers for the Left, Center, Right, and each Surround channel. If you do not have identical speakers, be sure that the overall tonal characteristic, or timbre, of all the speakers is similar. This is equally important for both Dolby Pro Logic and Dolby Digital playback.

Most speaker manufacturers offer timbre-matched home theater speakers. Many also offer systems combining matched compact speakers for the five main channels with one or more separate subwoofers for the non-directional bass; such a "satellite" system can prove an effective, space-saving solution

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/dolby_faq_1.html#q14

-------------------------------

Dolby Surround Mixing Manual

Speakers and Amplifiers

Front speaker setup may be accomplished two ways. One, add a Center speaker that matches the

acoustic characteristics of the existing Left and Right soffit speakers or two, install three

identical near-field monitors. In either case, the design of all three front speakers must be

identical; panning from one type of speaker to another causes great differences in the sound. This

does not mean that they all have to be the same size. Large Left and Right speakers and a smaller

Center speaker from the same product line are acceptable. If possible, the Center speaker should

have the same high- and mid-frequency drivers as the Left and Right speakers.

...

2-9

Many speaker product lines contain different sized models of the same design. The midranges

and tweeters are normally exactly the same while the woofers differ in quantity and size. In cases

where soffit space is limited, a smaller version of the main Left and Right speakers may be the only option for the Center channel.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/English_(US)/Professional/Technical_Library/Technologies/Dolby_Pro_Logic_II/44_SuroundMixing.pdf

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Now, you could use the center design for all of them, but it is usually much more expensive as far as parts go. Best center I've ever heard was a bloke that made a center from 2 dayton RS 7" with a dayton RS 5" and a seas prestige tweet. The sound was literally transparent with the others that were only two way dayton 7" RS designs.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Sweet! You can quote the dolby site! It would have helped if you looked at what people use for center channels in the real world, however.

I did not say that the drivers needed to be differently, but the same design rarely works in the real world.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

I mean, if you want to get into a full blown discussion about lobing and D'Appolito design, then I'd be glad to, but please realize that there are reasons why center channels look like they do.

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

That's not what I meant though. I didn't mean to imply that the other speakers should be lacking in vocal quality, but the center is what handles most of the voices unless it's music. With that said, you typically see centers with multiple midrange drivers when the fronts have a different design. Strong vocal clarity is essential and having 5 of the same speakers just doesn't seem to work.

Actually the main purpose of a center channel speaker is to provide proper center imaging no matter where in the room the listener is seated, to give the illusion that vocals are comming from the screen for everyone in the room. Otherwise, without a center speaker, there is only one "sweet spot" in the center of the room and all other positions would hear more of one speaker than the other, making the listening positions on either side sound like the vocals are comming from the side speaker nearest them, rather than the person on the screen in the center.

If you were the only listener and you sat in the "sweet spot" in the center, a center speaker would not be needed at all.

The Center channel speaker is used to anchor dialogue and other sounds to the screen. Inconventional two-speaker configurations, the listener can only hear a balanced mix when seated

exactly in the center or sweet spot, Figure 2-8. This configuration provides a good phantom

image.

Figure 2-8 Listener in Sweet Spot

If the listener moves to either side of this sweet spot the mix becomes heavy on that side. The

listener perceives the Center channel as coming from a point other than halfway between the Left

and Right speakers, as in Figure 2-9. In this configuration, the phantom image is displaced off

the screen.

This produces an eye/ear conflict, since the visual and audio images don’t match. The addition of

a Center speaker ensures that the center information, such as dialogue, stays locked on the screen

no matter where the listener is seated, as shown in Figure 2-10.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Actually the main purpose of a center channel speaker is to provide proper center imaging no matter where in the room the listener is seated, to give the illusion that vocals are comming from the screen for everyone in the room. Otherwise, without a center speaker, there is only one "sweet spot" in the center of the room and all other positions would hear more of one speaker than the other, making the listening positions on either side sound like the vocals are comming from the side speaker nearest them, rather than the person on the screen in the center.
If you were the only listener and you sat in the "sweet spot" in the center, a center speaker would not be needed at all.

So we're playing semantics now? Okay then, I'll say that most things that need to be "anchored" to the screen are voices from dialogue, therefore, the center is used to reproduce dialog aka voices. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

No the center shouldn't actually be the same.

The ideal Dolby Digital playback system uses identical full-range speakers

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I mean, if you want to get into a full blown discussion about lobing and D'Appolito design, then I'd be glad to, but please realize that there are reasons why center channels look like they do.

Lobing? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

So you've adding nothing to answer the OP's question, but instead just shit in the thread to rant about off topic things.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

That's not what I meant though. I didn't mean to imply that the other speakers should be lacking in vocal quality, but the center is what handles most of the voices unless it's music. With that said, you typically see centers with multiple midrange drivers when the fronts have a different design. Strong vocal clarity is essential and having 5 of the same speakers just doesn't seem to work.

The reason many are different is because of a size restriction. Which is fine. It doesn't matter if the L&R and the center are the same speakers or not. As long as they are voiced the same. Which usually requires the same drivers or very very similar drivers and desing which is rather hard to come by. Because, once you change the box or driver quantity or quality you change the sound of the loudspeakers.

But, all 5 or 7 in a completely optimum system should sound exactly alike. Which means they are going to have to be exactly the same design. You could use a center channel design for all of the speakers but I can think of several that sound poor at best when playing anything but voice. So, why not just use a standard design that sounds good playing voice. 90% of decent center channels have exactly the same drives as the L&R and Surrounds. The only difference is the size & shape of the box. Which takes lots of crossover tweeking to get to sound like the matching L&R speakers. If they don't they aren't going to match vocally, which sounds like crap. The main reason I hate my HTM-7. But, again in case you still don't get it OPTIMUM is 5 or 7 identical speakers. No way out of it.

To be honest a great Home Theater system is one that sounds good. My favorite HT system is 2 Meyer Sound UPJ-1P & 2 Meyer Sound PSW-4. No center channel no surrounds. Mostly because they aren't needed. The imagine created by the 2 stereo speakers is so clear there is no need. Voice tracks perfectly with the screen, you can hear noise behind you, I enjoy it more than my HT system with 6 speakers. But, then again one speaker is more then 3 times his total budget. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Sweet! You can quote the dolby site! It would have helped if you looked at what people use for center channels in the real world, however.
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/246660.jpg

http://www.audioark.com/images/C52_press-nogril_lo.jpg

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/74/989810/100_0129.jpg

http://images.smarter.com/300x300x15/3/56/28556.jpg

I did not say that the drivers needed to be differently, but the same design rarely works in the real world.

Actually you did say the drivers can be different. Because, when you add a mid-range or whatever you change the entire design of the speaker. You can't just plop another mid-range driver in the box and say "woop there it is". I mean seriously what are you talking about Willis?

BTW, don't be an *******. I can google too.

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/3028/hififrontal26jul2005s7ld.jpg

Plus my picture is bigger than yours. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[slam 5,000+ posts]

1200 per speaker? i recently bought me martin logans center and l/r towers