Hifonics brutus BRZ 1200.1 or Sundown SAZ 1000.1

[ExplicitUrSelf 10+ year member]

You may be wondering why I made this thread but us people need to know... Considering the hifonics brutus BRZ1200.1 is CEA appliant. Which one would be a better choice comparing to the sundown SAZ-1000.1D??

From what i know the BRZ-1200.1D is rated 900RMS at 2 ohm and 1200 at 1ohm and the sundown SAZ-1000.1D is rated 600@ 2ohm and 1000@1ohm. They both fall at the same price of 280$ shipped. But does the hifonics brutus. BRZ 1200.1D have a challange to the sundown SAZ-1000.1D??

HIFONICS - Brutus BRZ Amplifiers

Sundown Audio - SAZ-1000D

Click to read more...

 

[hatedonmostly 5,000+ posts]

No on the Hifi until I see clamped numbers...900 @ 2 was a fuckin' joke on my '10 Brutus.

 

[ExplicitUrSelf 10+ year member]

Im asuming you have the BXI series... I heard those were over rated.

 

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

While I do expect the BRZ series to be solid amps, perhaps along the lines of the DSC amps, Sundown has great customer service and I would say that you will get more than a 1000 out of the SAZ, and if you ever want to run at .5, id also feel safer with the SAZ

 

[mclerico83 5,000+ posts]

sundown, hands down. look into audioque 1200d also.

 

[corrie32 10+ year member]

the new BRZ-1200.1

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

the new BRZ-1200.1

Are you kidding me?

The Sundown SAE1200d benched at 1800@1 and its only rated for 1200@1 and did nearly the same numbers at 2 ohms without clipping.

 

[Mookie 10+ year member]

Sundown anyday.

 

[corrie32 10+ year member]

he's talking about the saz-1000

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

You do realize the SAE is Sundowns worst models right?

 

[corrie32 10+ year member]

Are you kidding me?
The Sundown SAE1200d benched at 1800@1 and its only rated for 1200@1 and did nearly the same numbers at 2 ohms without clipping.

yeah and it also started at .5 ohms and blew all the fuses, , which would void the warranty and it was 1700+ watts

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

yeah and it also started at .5 ohms and blew all the fuses, , which would void the warranty and it was 1700+ watts

Your an idiot. Where in DB-Rs testing does it say he blew all fuses or any for that matter? And where does it say anything about running at .5 ohms? Its all above 1 ohm after rise.

We finally got time to test the SAE-1200D.
First off, just some stats on this amp:

MSRP $499

GOING PRICE? About $100 less than a SAZ-1500D

Power Output Ratings:

300 watts @ 4 ohms RMS @ 12.8VDC

600 watts @ 2 ohms RMS @ 12.8VDC

1200 watts @ 1 ohm RMS @ 12.8VDC

Features and Specifications:

Input Sensitivity: 0.153-5.6 Volts

S/N Ratio: 100dB

Frequency Response: 15-250 Hertz

Subsonic Filter: (12dB/oct) 15-50 Hertz

Low Pass Filter: (12dB/oct) 50-250 Hertz

Bass Boost: (60Hz) 0-12dB

Efficiency: (2 ohms / 100Hz) 85%

Working Voltage: 10-15 VDC

Delay Start Time: 3-5 secs

Short Circuit Protect: 0.5 ohms

Internal Fusing: 30 amps x 5 Fuses

Dimensions: LxWxH 433 x 270 x 56.5 mm

First, let me make this clear, that this is NOT a "laboratory test". This is just a quick test of the amp here on our bench with our load testing setup, which really works better for amps under 500 watts to get accurate numbers at various voltages etc. This was just a quick test, but we did use Fluke meters for measuring the output voltages and current, and did use our oscilloscope for the unclipped power tests.

I know everyone wants to see the numbers so let me throw those out there first and then you can read the rest of the review:

Max Power Tests, with no regard to clipping:

40hz

65VAC 23Amps @ 12.5V = 1495 watts @ 2.8 Ohms

60hz

51VAC 25Amps @ 12.0V = 1275 watts @ 2.04 Ohms

65hz

48VAC 27Amps @ 12.0V = 1296 watts @ 1.78 Ohms

Unclipped (clean sine wave output) Power Tests:

40hz

55VAC 14Amps @ 13.2V = 770 watts @ 3.93 ohms

52hz

40VAC 20 Amps @ 12.5V = 800 watts @ 2 ohms

60hz

38VAC 22Amps @ 12.5V = 836 watts @ 1.73 ohms

69hz

39VAC 22Amps @ 12.7V = 858 watts @ 1.78 ohms

As you can see, this amp is doing very good numbers with higher impedances, a sign of two things as far as we are concerned here, powerful output section, and a power supply that responds well to higher electrical system voltages. So basically, you will likely get better numbers with just an average electrical setup in your car, our testing here is limited to batteries, which, while we have a lot of them, 2 group 31's and an 8D strapped together, our charging system is only good for about 60 amps, so keeping the voltage at 13-14 volts is not gonna happen with an amp this size, but we are able to hold 12 volts at very high currents 300 amps or so @ 12V because of the large amount of batteries. This is so we can load the amps down at 12volts for extended periods after we repair them, and it works quite well. We don't "load test" at 14-16V, we load test @ 12 volts.

I was really suprized at the numbers that this amp produced at higher impedances. The impedance rise of our test sub is a bit high, because it is in a sealed box, we just haven't had time around here to build a nice ported box for it to keep the impedance rise to a minimum, but the sub is beefy enough to handle high output even in a sealed box, it is a 15" Custom made sub that Sundown Audio built for us a while back, it has a Konaki Motor, with a stiff paper cone, 3" voice coil with alluminum former, and something like 6 spiders stacked up to make the suspension extremely stiff for higher power handling. It is VERY inefficient, but we don't care as long as it doesn't blow up, that's all we care.

The SAE-1200D exceeded it's power ratings in unclipped output power by a wide margin, which I think alot of people will be glad to hear if they are interested in an amp in this price range. 770 watts @ 3.93 ohms @ 13.2 volts DC is great. That is unclipped output, meaning that we had our oscilloscope on the output and monitored the screen on the scope for any sign of clipping and adjusted the input volume from the head unit until the amps output waveform started to show signs of clipping and then we backed it down a notch to where there was no clipping. For the max power output tests, we didn't care how bad it clipped, we just cranked it wide open and let it rip. This is what SPL competitors do, I don't think there are many who even know if they are clipping their output or not, and if they do they probably don't care, because they just need to make the speakers move, to move the air inside the vehicle to create pressure so they can score, doesn't matter if it sounds like ***. Daily users will be the ones who care about the unclipped power output.

 

[Johnny Law.Lulz 5,000+ posts]

Are you kidding me?
The Sundown SAE1200d benched at 1800@1 and its only rated for 1200@1 and did nearly the same numbers at 2 ohms without clipping.

yeah and it also started at .5 ohms and blew all the fuses, , which would void the warranty and it was 1700+ watts

This. The SAE will not do 1800. Period. I dont understand why you guys keep pulling jacobs testing numbers out of context. The fuses in the SAE will not support it and it CAN NOT do that daily. I dont care what you think. And there is no way you could get that much at 2 ohms without clipping because it cannot be done at 1 ohm.

I would get the sundown because its proven. I have faith in Hifonics and always have but for all anyone knows, the new lines could be a wash out. I want to see some numbers but until then i will have to be cautious. I always will love Hifonics but Sundown is where its at.

 

[Johnny Law.Lulz 5,000+ posts]

Someone find Jacobs tests from CACO.

 

[corrie32 10+ year member]

Your an idiot. Where in DB-Rs testing does it say he blew all fuses or any for that matter? And where does it say anything about running at .5 ohms? Its all above 1 ohm after rise.

don't understand why i have to be an idiot for stating facts

well i guess Jacob is and idiot also, since he was the one to do real test on his amps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am going to go through and drop the SAZ-1000D, SAE-1200D, SAZ-1500D, SAZ-2000D, SAZ-3000D, and SAZ-3500D in the Jeep and do a power clamp test so we have a rough and UNIFORM comparison between the amps in the same setup.

Test Frequency - 50 Hz

Test Load - 4x SA-12s all in parallel for 0.4375 DCR (1/2 nominal)

Test Electrical - 6x Stinger SPV-70 + 225-Amp Alternator (vehicle only at idle)

Amp gain set to 1/2 - Head Unit Sub Control 10/10 - Head Unit Volume 50/50

Setting gain to half on each amp is, of course, not an exact match... but for the sake of roughly comparing the amps I think it serves the purpose.

---------------

SAZ-1000D:

POWER : 1040 Watts

AMP VOLTAGE (measured) : 37.2 V

AMP CURRENT (calculated) : 27.95 A

ACTUAL IMPEDANCE (calculated) : 1.33 ohms

SUPPLY VOLTAGE : 13.15 V

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/_AMP_POWE...0D/CIMG2498.MOV

* Power Clamp

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/_AMP_POWE...0D/CIMG2499.MOV

* Voltage Measurement

---------------

SAE-1200D:

POWER : 1770 Watts

AMP VOLTAGE (measured) : DID NOT MEASURE

AMP CURRENT (calculated) : DID NOT MEASURE

ACTUAL IMPEDANCE (calculated) : DID NOT MEASURE

SUPPLY VOLTAGE : 12.65 V

http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/_AMP_POWE...0D/CIMG2513.MOV

* Power Clamp

DID NOT MEASURE

* Voltage Measurement

** FUSES BLEW - DID NOT CONTINUE TO MEASURE VOLTAGE

---------------

Originally Posted by wenn_du_weinst

very nice why did the 1200 blow the fuses though?

Because it put out 1770 watts and it's not supposed to!

At that power level it is less efficient than a 1500D (notice it dropped more voltage for less power) so the fuses just popped from over-current.

__________________

- Jacob Fuller

- Owner, Sundown Audio