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stuck up people in the northeast? way to make yourself look like an inbred redneck cousin fucker....I expected more from someone from Austin, I guess its not as progressive and open minded as people say it is.
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take your ******* back to your pipe thats obviously the only thing you seem to be good at escaping reality. worthless smh

 
What the **** does "progressive" mean? You keep using this term, and I just don't understand what you mean by it. Ignoring the constitution? Letting people who don't want to work live like people who work their *** off? Tell me what is "progressive".

Educated doesn't mean intelligent, some of the dumbest people I know are "educated".

 
Please.... I learned in preschool I'm not supposed to take from other people what isn't mine. Somewhere along the line some people forgot that.
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Did you not also learn that if you bring cookies to class, that you have to bring enough for everyone? Maybe you forgot that concept.

That's one of the main concepts of social liberalism.

In the liberal viewpoint, the teacher is the government, and the student lucky enough to bake cookies represents the people in America born into wealth and opportunity. If you have access to flour, baking powder, and chocolate chips, while the majority of the class is in public school because their parents can't afford anything else, don't you feel the obligation to share with the class this advantage? Or maybe you unfoundedly believe that if all of the other students want cookies, they all should go ask they parent(s)/guardian(s) to buy something as cheap and essential as flour. What you don't understand is that they simply can't afford it. Those students go to soup kitchens for three of the five week day dinners, and they have free lunches from school. Do you think these students have the same opportunity to become educated and successful like you? Please... You don't know anything about other people's opportunities.

If you're lucky enough to have a salary of $80k, and you can "barely get by", imagine entire families who have incomes of $10-15k, on a good year, with a mother who owes $400k in doctor bills from surgeries so that she can walk. Imagine the four children who lost both parents at a young age, had no other family, and were thrown around from foster home to foster home, never getting the proper care they needed to become successful in academia. They have no support, no money to start their lives from, and no practical way of getting a job. No one hires them because they're minorities without even a high school education. Why would you hire them anyway? Stupid Mexicans probably can't even count to two anyway. That's obviously why they're uneducated, right? Or maybe they're just lazy. Maybe they don't want it enough. After all, you as a store owner had to work through hardship. You had student loans for Christ's sake!

But the thing is, you don't see your success as luck. Because you know nothing about poverty and the life of those towing the line, you have no idea how lucky you truly are. You see it as you working your *** off, and that hard work paying off. The point is that circumstances are different for everyone, and exceptionally worse for those born into poverty. How do you know that these inner city minorities have not worked hard to make money and be successful like you?! That's all they want, yet they will never be able to achieve their goals. Not because they're lazy, not because they're potheads(this one isn't directed at you personally //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ), and not because minorities think they need government's help, but because they do! Go to Chicago. Go to Detroit. Go to all of the cities with high crime rates and drop out rates. Tell me how the living conditions are. Tell me what the schools are like, how much the teachers care, and how many parents there are for each child. I can tell you now that you'll be shocked. You don't know what it's like.

But the right will always call the left lazy, ignorant, good for nothing, greedy, etc., for no reason other than that they simply do not understand. Us on the left vote for those who cannot vote for themselves. Photo ID costs money and needs to be renewed. So many Americans can't afford ID because they simply don't have the opportunity. Struggle is a real thing, and many places here in the US more closely resemble third world countries than Beverly Hills. So we vote for them. Liberals vote for humanity, not tradition, because people matter more than nice cars. There are wealthy liberals, I assure you. Just because most rich Conservatives are greedy and bitter, doesn't mean that everyone with money is.

Sure, you can say, "That's what charities are for," and you might be right in some instances. The thing is, charities don't have the resources or the manpower to achieve their goals. The government can do the job much more easily, efficiently, and equally. With a mandated tax specific for helping out minorities, along with its own office and resources, there is no need for the 30 different charities that are supposed to do the same thing -- but that's not to say that charities should go away, because they can always help as well.

Stop saying that liberals are Communists because it's simply not true. Capitalism is fine. It's great. Communism is entirely different than what most of everyone thinks. The thing is, because most people do not know, most people who cry out "Communist!" are wrong. But I understand where the concern comes from. While my ideas may be left, and maybe even close to being possibly classified as "socialist", I understand that there is a difference.

The position I hold is that equal opportunity comes before everything. Liberty matters, of course. But I would gladly pay a small percentage of my potential income to help out those who cannot help themselves. Of course, those with a salary of $250k+ would technically be paying more money, but that's obvious. Percentages are percentages. So yes, I believe that slightly raising taxes on us lucky enough to live in paid for houses with Internet, smartphones, laptops, clean water, fresh produce, and Arizer Extremes, for the better of our nation is worth it. Why? Because I spend my money. I try to stimulate the American economy in any way that I can. So should everyone else. If low income families start seeing more money, they pay off debts and try to get an education. Yes, there will be abusers of the system. There always will be, and it's an issue. There certainly have to be provisions to policies that would reflect my idea. Maybe put contingencies in these grants or whatever they would be, notifying the recipient that funding will stop if a certain amount of money is not accounted for during tax season, I don't know.

Anyway, regarding other taxes, I understand that corporations need money to do their work. Small tax breaks reflecting this, I feel, are not only important, but necessary. After all, the value of the dollar is based on how confident we are. If corporations are confident in their ability to hire and pay imployees, they will go after more deals, further helping the economy. If the single mom feels confident in her ability to take care of her child and give him/her a proper education, she will spend more. Along these lines, if corporations outsourcing see that everyone is happy again, they will(hopefully) bring back jobs and even further grow the economy. The beauty of this taxation is that if it is based on yearly income, when no one is under the perceived poverty line at any moment, there are no extra taxes for the wealthy.

Now, obviously, I'm operating under a few key assumptions which are:

1) Those with wealth no longer hoard it out of greed

2) Those at or under the poverty line do their fair share of work to step up

3) Government works as one, not as two separate entities fighting over who has more power(seriously, you take pride in grid locking Obama so that nothing gets done based on your idea of liberty? It's called evolution -- it's time to evolve. There are other people who inhabit this country. We don't care about your games.)

So, there it is. That's what I believe is possible/should be done. The deficit is obviously an issue, a huge one, possibly ending with a catastrophic failure for the economy, and there may actually be no coming back. I blame Washington DC. I blame partisan bickering and power grabs that have gone on for the past several decades, and more importantly the past 15 years or so. I blame the media for blatantly polarizing the country nearly down the middle and creating this in the first place. However, I do not blame Bush. Or Clinton. Or Obama. They are not the problem.

 
Did you not also learn that if you bring cookies to class, that you have to bring enough for everyone? Maybe you forgot that concept.
That's one of the main concepts of social liberalism.

In the liberal viewpoint, the teacher is the government, and the student lucky enough to bake cookies represents the people in America born into wealth and opportunity. If you have access to flour, baking powder, and chocolate chips, while the majority of the class is in public school because their parents can't afford anything else, don't you feel the obligation to share with the class this advantage? Or maybe you unfoundedly believe that if all of the other students want cookies, they all should go ask they parent(s)/guardian(s) to buy something as cheap and essential as flour. What you don't understand is that they simply can't afford it. Those students go to soup kitchens for three of the five week day dinners, and they have free lunches from school. Do you think these students have the same opportunity to become educated and successful like you? Please... You don't know anything about other people's opportunities.

If you're lucky enough to have a salary of $80k, and you can "barely get by", imagine entire families who have incomes of $10-15k, on a good year, with a mother who owes $400k in doctor bills from surgeries so that she can walk. Imagine the four children who lost both parents at a young age, had no other family, and were thrown around from foster home to foster home, never getting the proper care they needed to become successful in academia. They have no support, no money to start their lives from, and no practical way of getting a job. No one hires them because they're minorities without even a high school education. Why would you hire them anyway? Stupid Mexicans probably can't even count to two anyway. That's obviously why they're uneducated, right? Or maybe they're just lazy. Maybe they don't want it enough. After all, you as a store owner had to work through hardship. You had student loans for Christ's sake!

But the thing is, you don't see your success as luck. Because you know nothing about poverty and the life of those towing the line, you have no idea how lucky you truly are. You see it as you working your *** off, and that hard work paying off. The point is that circumstances are different for everyone, and exceptionally worse for those born into poverty. How do you know that these inner city minorities have not worked hard to make money and be successful like you?! That's all they want, yet they will never be able to achieve their goals. Not because they're lazy, not because they're potheads(this one isn't directed at you personally //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ), and not because minorities think they need government's help, but because they do! Go to Chicago. Go to Detroit. Go to all of the cities with high crime rates and drop out rates. Tell me how the living conditions are. Tell me what the schools are like, how much the teachers care, and how many parents there are for each child. I can tell you now that you'll be shocked. You don't know what it's like.

But the right will always call the left lazy, ignorant, good for nothing, greedy, etc., for no reason other than that they simply do not understand. Us on the left vote for those who cannot vote for themselves. Photo ID costs money and needs to be renewed. So many Americans can't afford ID because they simply don't have the opportunity. Struggle is a real thing, and many places here in the US more closely resemble third world countries than Beverly Hills. So we vote for them. Liberals vote for humanity, not tradition, because people matter more than nice cars. There are wealthy liberals, I assure you. Just because most rich Conservatives are greedy and bitter, doesn't mean that everyone with money is.

Sure, you can say, "That's what charities are for," and you might be right in some instances. The thing is, charities don't have the resources or the manpower to achieve their goals. The government can do the job much more easily, efficiently, and equally. With a mandated tax specific for helping out minorities, along with its own office and resources, there is no need for the 30 different charities that are supposed to do the same thing -- but that's not to say that charities should go away, because they can always help as well.

Stop saying that liberals are Communists because it's simply not true. Capitalism is fine. It's great. Communism is entirely different than what most of everyone thinks. The thing is, because most people do not know, most people who cry out "Communist!" are wrong. But I understand where the concern comes from. While my ideas may be left, and maybe even close to being possibly classified as "socialist", I understand that there is a difference.

The position I hold is that equal opportunity comes before everything. Liberty matters, of course. But I would gladly pay a small percentage of my potential income to help out those who cannot help themselves. Of course, those with a salary of $250k+ would technically be paying more money, but that's obvious. Percentages are percentages. So yes, I believe that slightly raising taxes on us lucky enough to live in paid for houses with Internet, smartphones, laptops, clean water, fresh produce, and Arizer Extremes, for the better of our nation is worth it. Why? Because I spend my money. I try to stimulate the American economy in any way that I can. So should everyone else. If low income families start seeing more money, they pay off debts and try to get an education. Yes, there will be abusers of the system. There always will be, and it's an issue. There certainly have to be provisions to policies that would reflect my idea. Maybe put contingencies in these grants or whatever they would be, notifying the recipient that funding will stop if a certain amount of money is not accounted for during tax season, I don't know.

Anyway, regarding other taxes, I understand that corporations need money to do their work. Small tax breaks reflecting this, I feel, are not only important, but necessary. After all, the value of the dollar is based on how confident we are. If corporations are confident in their ability to hire and pay imployees, they will go after more deals, further helping the economy. If the single mom feels confident in her ability to take care of her child and give him/her a proper education, she will spend more. Along these lines, if corporations outsourcing see that everyone is happy again, they will(hopefully) bring back jobs and even further grow the economy. The beauty of this taxation is that if it is based on yearly income, when no one is under the perceived poverty line at any moment, there are no extra taxes for the wealthy.

Now, obviously, I'm operating under a few key assumptions which are:

1) Those with wealth no longer hoard it out of greed

2) Those at or under the poverty line do their fair share of work to step up

3) Government works as one, not as two separate entities fighting over who has more power(seriously, you take pride in grid locking Obama so that nothing gets done based on your idea of liberty? It's called evolution -- it's time to evolve. There are other people who inhabit this country. We don't care about your games.)

So, there it is. That's what I believe is possible/should be done. The deficit is obviously an issue, a huge one, possibly ending with a catastrophic failure for the economy, and there may actually be no coming back. I blame Washington DC. I blame partisan bickering and power grabs that have gone on for the past several decades, and more importantly the past 15 years or so. I blame the media for blatantly polarizing the country nearly down the middle and creating this in the first place. However, I do not blame Bush. Or Clinton. Or Obama. They are not the problem.
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Your post took you some time but the fact is people become dependant on knowing the people who have extra will just give me some of their cookies. And because of this breeds lazyness . I came from a poor home my presents came from the toys donated .i ate spaghetti for months straight because we had it and its cheap. But the idea of taking someone elses sucess is stupid .I've had the same oppourtunities as anyone else and I'm where I'm at because i chose this path . You my friend need to think about a world of handouts and people expecting that were headed dowm the drain

 
Your post took you some time but the fact is people become dependant on knowing the people who have extra will just give me some of their cookies. And because of this breeds lazyness . I came from a poor home my presents came from the toys donated .i ate spaghetti for months straight because we had it and its cheap. But the idea of taking someone elses sucess is stupid .I've had the same oppourtunities as anyone else and I'm where I'm at because i chose this path . You my friend need to think about a world of handouts and people expecting that were headed dowm the drain
Click to expand...
Again, circumstances are different for everyone. Poverty isn't the only issue here. Education needs reform. As does health care. You do not have the same opportunity as everyone else. Do you have the opportunity to buy out Coca-Cola? Of course not, because it's virtually impossible for you to make the money necessary. That is a fact. That is proof that not everyone has the same opportunity. By the way, congratulations for crawling out of poverty and becoming successful. However, you cannot say that it is all because of hard work. Because like I said, no amount of hard work would grant you the opportunity to buy Coca-Cola. Similarly, no amount of hard work for a large number of Americans will allow them to be even as successful as you or I. This is also fact.

And like I touched on, there will be abusers of the system. This is obviously manageable, but until I decide to run for Congress(not happening), I am not going to take the time to figure out a way to manage the abuse. You can't just say that because there will be abuse that it could never work. It's (kind of)like saying we should get rid of the legal drinking age because children can obviously get beer. Or that we should get rid of houses because people can always break in. They all reduce to the fact that some people do bad things. As with ID checks, we can manage the monetary abuse. As with padlocks, we can manage monetary abuse.

About taking someone's success, do you base success on the exact amount of money you have in your bank account, or on your assets and career? In my opinion, the answer is the latter, because the value of money is ever-changing, and even if you lose money, you're still in the same position as you were ten minutes ago(maybe you've stood up or turned around). But regardless, I never said to take any money you've already earned. As far as that's concerned, it's yours. What we need is a revamping of our social ideals, so that you do not mind giving up a bit of your monetary potential for someone else's success potential. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

And I do agree, the idea that we would have to take money from the wealthy isn't ideal, and you have the right to dislike it. If it was possible, many people would love for everyone to just be free to do what they want, however they want, with no regard to other human life. The problem is that this promotes greed, monopolies, and divisiveness. That's what's been happening. That's (partly) why so many are born into poverty (along with overpopulation and other things).

Stop thinking about the idea as a handout, and more as a gift. Were you not grateful for the toys you received as a child? The only difference is that with this, it's the Government giving you gifts at Christmas instead of the family down the street. I mean, I don't understand how you can have been in a similar situation, yet you wholly disagree with the idea that some people need help. Let me put it this way. If your parent(s) had help from the government, what do you think would be different about your childhood, and your world-view as you went into the adult world? How would your parents' lives be different today?(or if you're older, how would their lives have been different as they were nearing retirement age?)

Conversely, what do you suggest we do for the families I've described? What would you want for your family? Do you suggest we leave them to rot so that we can keep our money? Or do you suggest something else? I truly want to know.

I'm sure you have compassion for those without opportunity, as you were in a similar state once. But what if you never got out? What if your parents had to move to a place where you weren't able to get an education? What if you turned 18 with nothing more than a third grade understanding of the world and no diploma? What if there were no jobs, and your parents could not help? Would you still feel that it's stupid to help those who need it, just because you do not need it? I understand your sentiment, by the way. You worked hard for your money, and you would hate to see it go. But would you hate it so much if that money helped the child equivalent of you turn into the adult equivalent of you?

My point is, while you had the opportunity to make a choice, not everyone does. Where you had the choice to edicate yourself and become successful, several thousand other people had their fates sealed by crippling debt and no education. There are people right now with no chance of understanding Algebra or knowing what a checkbook even is. The amount of uneducated people in this country alone is staggering.

Edit: Thank you for noticing the effort I put into my previous post. It took a while, especially on an iPhone.

 
David just give up......Looks like you have found yourself here!!!!

Brickwall.jpg


 
Again, circumstances are different for everyone. Poverty isn't the only issue here. Education needs reform. As does health care. You do not have the same opportunity as everyone else. Do you have the opportunity to buy out Coca-Cola? Of course not, because it's virtually impossible for you to make the money necessary. That is a fact. That is proof that not everyone has the same opportunity. By the way, congratulations for crawling out of poverty and becoming successful. However, you cannot say that it is all because of hard work. Because like I said, no amount of hard work would grant you the opportunity to buy Coca-Cola. Similarly, no amount of hard work for a large number of Americans will allow them to be even as successful as you or I. This is also fact.
And like I touched on, there will be abusers of the system. This is obviously manageable, but until I decide to run for Congress(not happening), I am not going to take the time to figure out a way to manage the abuse. You can't just say that because there will be abuse that it could never work. It's (kind of)like saying we should get rid of the legal drinking age because children can obviously get beer. Or that we should get rid of houses because people can always break in. They all reduce to the fact that some people do bad things. As with ID checks, we can manage the monetary abuse. As with padlocks, we can manage monetary abuse.

About taking someone's success, do you base success on the exact amount of money you have in your bank account, or on your assets and career? In my opinion, the answer is the latter, because the value of money is ever-changing, and even if you lose money, you're still in the same position as you were ten minutes ago(maybe you've stood up or turned around). But regardless, I never said to take any money you've already earned. As far as that's concerned, it's yours. What we need is a revamping of our social ideals, so that you do not mind giving up a bit of your monetary potential for someone else's success potential. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

And I do agree, the idea that we would have to take money from the wealthy isn't ideal, and you have the right to dislike it. If it was possible, many people would love for everyone to just be free to do what they want, however they want, with no regard to other human life. The problem is that this promotes greed, monopolies, and divisiveness. That's what's been happening. That's (partly) why so many are born into poverty (along with overpopulation and other things).

Stop thinking about the idea as a handout, and more as a gift. Were you not grateful for the toys you received as a child? The only difference is that with this, it's the Government giving you gifts at Christmas instead of the family down the street. I mean, I don't understand how you can have been in a similar situation, yet you wholly disagree with the idea that some people need help. Let me put it this way. If your parent(s) had help from the government, what do you think would be different about your childhood, and your world-view as you went into the adult world? How would your parents' lives be different today?(or if you're older, how would their lives have been different as they were nearing retirement age?)

Conversely, what do you suggest we do for the families I've described? What would you want for your family? Do you suggest we leave them to rot so that we can keep our money? Or do you suggest something else? I truly want to know.

I'm sure you have compassion for those without opportunity, as you were in a similar state once. But what if you never got out? What if your parents had to move to a place where you weren't able to get an education? What if you turned 18 with nothing more than a third grade understanding of the world and no diploma? What if there were no jobs, and your parents could not help? Would you still feel that it's stupid to help those who need it, just because you do not need it? I understand your sentiment, by the way. You worked hard for your money, and you would hate to see it go. But would you hate it so much if that money helped the child equivalent of you turn into the adult equivalent of you?

My point is, while you had the opportunity to make a choice, not everyone does. Where you had the choice to edicate yourself and become successful, several thousand other people had their fates sealed by crippling debt and no education. There are people right now with no chance of understanding Algebra or knowing what a checkbook even is. The amount of uneducated people in this country alone is staggering.

Edit: Thank you for noticing the effort I put into my previous post. It took a while, especially on an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Same here droid lol. But we never got food stamps call it pride or whatever. One thing is your kinda exaggerating a bit can someone grow up poor like me grow up to buy coke um no. Can they grow up to make around 50k a year like me sure its called get off your *** and stop waiting for someone to help you . You act like this is a 3rd world country with families dying in the streets all across America and its not like that. They get their government debit card talking on their cellphones and driving fancy cars i see it every day .

 
Same here droid lol. But we never got food stamps call it pride or whatever. One thing is your kinda exaggerating a bit can someone grow up poor like me grow up to buy coke um no. Can they grow up to make around 50k a year like me sure its called get off your *** and stop waiting for someone to help you . You act like this is a 3rd world country with families dying in the streets all across America and its not like that. They get their government debit card talking on their cellphones and driving fancy cars i see it every day .
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Oh and i got a ten dollar toy someone donated not tons of free health care or free education that others had to pay for lets keep it apples to apples here man your comparing minute things to major issues

 

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 PM ----------

 

David just give up......Looks like you have found yourself here!!!!


Brickwall.jpg
Click to expand...
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 
Same here droid lol. But we never got food stamps call it pride or whatever. One thing is your kinda exaggerating a bit can someone grow up poor like me grow up to buy coke um no. Can they grow up to make around 50k a year like me sure its called get off your *** and stop waiting for someone to help you . You act like this is a 3rd world country with families dying in the streets all across America and its not like that. They get their government debit card talking on their cellphones and driving fancy cars i see it every day .
Click to expand...
First, how is it an exaggeration to imply that one cannot be born poor and eventually own Coca-Cola? I was providing you with a fact that supports the fact that people in this country are not born with equal opportunity. There's no possible way to interject with the idea that I was exaggerating. It's an analogy based on facts.

I never said that families are dying all across America. I said there were some people with these problems. Those are the people who do not have the opportunity to better themselves. The people you're describing are lower middle class. I'm lower middle class. You're lower middle class. The fact is, even the lower middle class is towing poverty. I used to eat Ramen every day, or ground beef and rice. While we were poor, at least we were able to feed ourselves.

I had two part time jobs between the age of 16 and 18, and went to a university the fall after I graduated. I eventually dropped out(for personal reasons, nothing about the work being too hard or because of money), and now I love a much different lifestyle. I don't have much, but I am not angry or jealous of those wealthier than I am. I'm grateful to be where I am, to have the opportunities I have. Many kids I went to school with weren't able to get the education that I got(yes, even in the same school -- education depends on more than classes, while they do matter). Many of them did not graduate, and had to do different things. Some went to the labor workforce, some got pregnant and had to go on welfare, some had to start dealing drugs, and some tried to become famous rappers. None of the people I went to school with are the types of people I am talking about. They all have real opportunities based on where we are in the country.

Feel free to answer even one of my questions. I'd honestly like to know, if you want to have a real discussion. If you're just going to speak angrily about moochers, I'd really prefer for you to just let me know now before I continue trying to talk to you. If you're able to put aside those emotions, or at least understand that the problems you're describing can be fixed, then we can actually discuss the ideas I've presented.

Honestly, I probably should have posted elsewhere. This was essentially a political trolling thread, so there might not have really been a use in trying to talk to the people posting.

 
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