Hey Christians

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

Ill let you ponder that one while I run to Fedex, then the gun shop, and then food.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Which laws are you talking about? Can you list them?

If I have to tell you can I call you atheist? Pretty sure they are called the ten commandos or is that commandments?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Moral weakness becomes corruptive no matter what the corrupt claim. If you do not believe in god or the bible all the more reason to believe in morals and conscience.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Oh god not this shit...
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nG

Its not really shit..it can also be used to display generational gaffs:laugh: Each person can take things to heart to different levels but history always attemps to repeat itself no matter how "new" or the spin is put upon it

 

[Kastlez_ 10+ year member]

Jews are the root of all evil. They murdered jebus

Good Game

end discussion.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

Jews are the root of all evil. They murdered jebus
Good Game

end discussion.

 

[TannoH]

and do not take this as an insult, but your mothers word is no stronger than anything written in the bible. how do you know that she isn't lying to you, like you say the bible is lying to christians.

This fails terribly at even making this arguable, due to the fac that your mother is present in the physical form telling you ''shes loves you'' in comparison to the bible were you have less physical or passable evidence that is not that solid. So I think your mothers word is stronger, and holds more believable evidence of being true than some bible scriptures, because even if shes lying theres still more solid proof based on factual proof that you have seein it and heard it wich concludes for a more solid, stronger claim compared to such events.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

If I have to tell you can I call you atheist? Pretty sure they are called the ten commandos or is that commandments?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

I am the Lord your God

You shall have no other Gods before me

You shall not worship idols

You shall not misuse the name of God

Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy

Yeah, the first five are key. How does that make someone live a moral life? All they are is God demonstrating his egotism, narcissism and jealousy.

Honor your father and mother

If your mother and father abuse and neglect you, you should still honor them?

You shall not murder

Okay, fair enough. Pretty basic moral principle that would have existed without the 10 commandments

You shall not commit adultery

Of all the important things in life, this is one of God's Top 10? Seriously?

You shall not steal

Okay, fair enough. Pretty basic moral principle that would have existed without the 10 commandments

You shall not lie

Pretty basic moral principle that would have existed without the 10 commandments

You shall not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

So basically, god is the only one allowed to be jealous (as demonstrated by the first 5 commandments)?

Seems like maybe god should have learned "Thy shalt not covet thy competing god's worshipers, nor his statues, nor his ***, nor anything that is thy competing god's"

He is a bit hypocritical.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

The cost of believing is cheaper than the cost for not believing.

That is not faith. If you believe in God simply as a means to hedge your bets on going to heaven, Im pretty sure if there is an omnipotent being, he will realize your insincerity.

 

[destined2race 10+ year member]

let me chime in... well whether or not 50 billion people in time have believed in god i guess is irrelevant. Either way, its good there are so many believers. I mean could you really imagine living in this world with all the scum bags if we ABSOLUTELY knew there was no afterlife??? This world would be so terrible. It does bring up the arguement for some - that religion was created as a way to keep people in order. I am a christian, but ill admit ive had days that make it awful hard to believe. But im sure glad there is, because i have met some of the best people in this world through it. People who will give anything they can for others.

So anyways, Peace be with you all, except the French.

 

[TannoH]

In my opinion one of the most convincing arguments for God is that of the existence of moral law. When a small child is ditched in line he somehow knows that "that's not fair!" Why is that? The answer is best given in the reality of the absolute moral law. If a common moral law exists then that necessitates a Moral Law Giver,God.

One looks at the Holocaust and concludes that the Germans' actions were "atrocious" and "evil". This might beg the question "Why is killing evil?". The question is best answered by assuming something was able to write this law on our hearts with intentions to leading us to an even greater moral perfection. Once again that something is God.

The Argument is best summed up in the following:

1.There is a universal moral law

2.Such a moral law would imply a Law Giver

3.Thus, God exists as the Law Giver

There is still the question of evil. If there is such a law then why aren't murders and rapists bound by it? The answer is that they are or at least they were. People aren't born killers. People make decisions that lead to habits that lead to lifestyles.

I once saw an interview with Jeffrey Dahmer while he was in prison. The interviewer asked him to describe how he came to do the monstrous things he did. Jeffrey answered by saying that he basically had to battle his conscience to commit that first **** and murder. After that it became less of a moral issue each time he did it. However, after the fact Dahmer went on to say he became aware of the atrocity of his actions through contemplation of his acts well after he committed them. In essence, even if one is able to shrug off his conscience for a few moments it still comes back to haunt him once he's had time to think about it.

On the other end of the spectrum, we see moral law coming to perfection in the lives of saints and the like. They have demonstrated that when we follow our conscience it ultimately leads to the Almighty and then to moral perfection in God. This manifests itself in acts of extreme self-sacrifice and selflessness in order to help others with no ulterior motives whatsoever.

 

[Kastlez_ 10+ year member]

let me chime in... well whether or not 50 billion people in time have believed in god i guess is irrelevant. Either way, its good there are so many believers. I mean could you really imagine living in this world with all the scum bags if we ABSOLUTELY knew there was no afterlife??? This world would be so terrible. It does bring up the arguement for some - that religion was created as a way to keep people in order. I am a faithful christian, but ill admit ive had days that make it awful hard to believe. But im sure glad there is, because i have met some of the best people in this world through it. People who will give anything they can for others.
So anyways, Peace be with you all, except the French.

YES!!!

you see even Christians despise the French

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

In my opinion one of the most convincing arguments for God is that of the existence of moral law. When a small child is ditched in line he somehow knows that "that's not fair!" Why is that? The answer is best given in the reality of the absolute moral law. If a common moral law exists then that necessitates a Moral Law Giver,God.

And you can factually define the differences for us between 'morals' and 'instincts'?

 

[MmatsDude 10+ year member]

In my opinion one of the most convincing arguments for God is that of the existence of moral law. When a small child is ditched in line he somehow knows that "that's not fair!" Why is that?

Does he? I assume you are talking about a child who is young enough that one could not argue that he has been taught the concept of fairness (otherwise your example completely fails). It seems to me that such a child would not be thinking about fairness, but rather his own sadness, fear, and feeling of rejection.

In fact, I think that the idea of an innate sense of fairness is probably one of the worst examples you could try to give. Small children are notoriously unfair and selfish. Teaching fairness to children is extremely difficult, and it is a sad but easily observed fact of life that "privilaged" children who never learn this concept, end up having little or not concept of it as adults either.

The answer is best given in the reality of the absolute moral law. If a common moral law exists then that necessitates a Moral Law Giver,God.

Even if I accepted your example as valid, this seems to me to be quite a jump. If there is some sort of innate moral compass in people, then all that really means is that our brains are such that we have these morals at an instinctive level. How would that be any different than things like instinctively fearing certain things? Or instinctively being attracted to the opposite ***?

Indeed, many aspects of our morals do come from such instinctive responses, such as compassion and empathy for other people, and attachement to family. It seems to me that it is far more reasonable to look for the explanation for these instincts in our evolutionary development, rather than appealing to some inexplicable "law giver".

One looks at the Holocaust and concludes that the Germans' actions were "atrocious" and "evil". This might beg the question "Why is killing evil?".

I think you mean "raise the question".

The question is best answered by assuming something was able to write this law on our hearts with intentions to leading us to an even greater moral perfection. Once again that something is God.

Is that the best answer? Please explain why you think it is. I can think of all sorts of answers which not only don't require us to introduce supernatural entities, but which are also testable, and actually have supporting evidence for them. Incidentally, what about the people involved in those atrocities? Do you think they all considered themselves to be evil? Or did God forget to gift them with morality?

The Argument is best summed up in the following: 1.There is a universal moral law

2.Such a moral law would imply a Law Giver

3.Thus, God exists as the Law Giver

I have yet to see any compelling evidence for there being a universal moral law. On the contrary, the available evidence seems to quite clearly indicate otherwise.

Just look to our own history for confirmation of this. What was widely considered to be "moral" and "immoral" 1000 years ago greatly differs from today. Would you consider slavery to be moral? How about beating your wife for disobedience? Or raping and murdering your enemies in a war?

If there is a universal moral law, which one is it? Apperantly a lot of people never got the memo.

There is still the question of evil. If there is such a law then why aren't murders and rapists bound by it? The answer is that they are or at least they were. People aren't born killers. People make decisions that lead to habits that lead to lifestyles.

If this is the case, then wouldn't the most reasonable conclusion be that those people who do behave in the way you consider to me moral are also behaving so due to decisions which lead to habits which lead to lifestyles?

I could use the exact argument you have presented for a universal morality to argue that these evil people were given their twisted moral laws by Satan, instead of God. Apperantly you don't seem to think this is the case. Why?

Or even better, maybe God gave them their evil morals too, because for reasons we can't comprehend, he wanted these conflicts to exist. Maybe god is, himself, evil?

All of this amounts to blind speculation. All you are doing is attempting to fit the evidence to the conclusion you want.

I once saw an interview with Jeffrey Dahmer while he was in prison. The interviewer asked him to describe how he came to do the monstrous things he did. Jeffrey answered by saying that he basically had to battle his conscience to commit that first **** and murder. After that it became less of a moral issue each time he did it. However, after the fact Dahmer went on to say he became aware of the atrocity of his actions through contemplation of his acts well after he committed them. In essence, even if one is able to shrug off his conscience for a few moments it still comes back to haunt him once he's had time to think about it.

That's one example of a mentally ill person. What about all the monsters who actually believed that what they were doing was morally right?

On the other end of the spectrum, we see moral law coming to perfection in the lives of saints and the like. They have demonstrated that when we follow our conscience it ultimately leads to the Almighty and then to moral perfection in God.

Have they? How do you know that they aren't being punished in Hell right now by a god that considers their acts to be evil? You don't. You are simply assuming what you want to be true.

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

The Argument is best summed up in the following:

1.There is a universal moral law

2.Such a moral law would imply a Law Giver

3.Thus, God exists as the Law Giver

Just read the front page of any newspaper and you'll see how much people are not able to agree on this 'universal moral law.'

Even if there was such a thing it does not in any way necessitate a god. Given the gregariousness of humans, there are obvious evolutionary reasons why we might value treating each other certain ways.

Its also might be worth noting that your formula could just as easily (maybe even easier) invoke multiple gods. But I'm sure that wont keep you from laughing at Greek mythology.

 

[THUMPPER 10+ year member]

So today your jebus was nailed on a wood plank to die for you so you can fly to live with him on the clouds and be happy ever after.
It always amazes me how many of you still believe this. I mean, can you prove any of this?

it all revolves around astrology............Jesus = the SUN

we are in the age of Pisces (fish) at the moment.....next is the age of Aries