wenn_du_weinst
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
And how many people actually know everything about this plan?
wenn_du_weinst
mast240
10+ year member
YOU'RE A HOOKER!
its's 2700 pages long.... 2700!!!! that is done purposely with an EXTREME amount of fluff in the writing of the bill, to discourage the average american from reading it. trust me, i read through the first 100 pages, and finally said, fvck it, i'm getting cliffs.
Here's the down and dirty of the bill's BS....
it progressively enacts the provisions over the next 10 years. So, it will slowly change the tax code up until 2016 when the majority of it's provisions will be in affect.
It will require ALL americans (with the exception of ILLEGAL immigrants, hmmmm) to purchase health insurance, even those who cant afford it, but make just a little too much to be eligible for public assistance.
It will then, through the IRS (explain the BS behind this move) require all taxpayers to prove that they do indeed have health insurance, through their tax return... and those who dont, will be assessed a fee on their return. For the lower percentage of WORKING americans, this will equal around $700.
so, in essence, they're going to penalize the lower middleclass, you know those who would rather work than go on govt assistance, for not being able to afford insurance, while making healthcare even more over inflated and expensive, and giving even more garunteed money to the insurance companies.
Here's the down and dirty of the bill's BS....
it progressively enacts the provisions over the next 10 years. So, it will slowly change the tax code up until 2016 when the majority of it's provisions will be in affect.
It will require ALL americans (with the exception of ILLEGAL immigrants, hmmmm) to purchase health insurance, even those who cant afford it, but make just a little too much to be eligible for public assistance.
It will then, through the IRS (explain the BS behind this move) require all taxpayers to prove that they do indeed have health insurance, through their tax return... and those who dont, will be assessed a fee on their return. For the lower percentage of WORKING americans, this will equal around $700.
so, in essence, they're going to penalize the lower middleclass, you know those who would rather work than go on govt assistance, for not being able to afford insurance, while making healthcare even more over inflated and expensive, and giving even more garunteed money to the insurance companies.
wenn_du_weinst
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
exactly, criticizing without even knowing exactly what it's about. Paraphrasing is only going to confuse the topic, With out reading it how the fuck do you know you have it right?
mast240
10+ year member
YOU'RE A HOOKER!
are you serious... you missed the entire point of my post.... it's designed to be SOOO long, that even if you made it through all 2700 pages, you wouldnt even be able to sort out what is actually important, and what is just fluff.
have you read through it?
groundpound4200
5,000+ posts
Da fuq did I just read?
:sigh: please make better choices at the ballot box this year people
Ignatowski
5,000+ posts
CarAudio.com Veteran
vote against Obama in November.......Anyone is better than this clown
What he has done will cost Americans 5 Trillion bucks!
What Obamacare has in store for you
Now that the Supreme Court has upheld Obamacare under the tax clause (and he swore that this bill was not a tax remember???) This is the bottome line:
Employers who employ 50 or more full time employees must provide health insurance benefits that comply with the law or pay a $2,000 tax per employee. Let's face facts shall we? If the cost of paying the tax is less than providing benefits the employer will gladly pay the tax and drop your benefits. Notice also that the law stipulates full time employees. A full time employee is an employee that works less than 30 hours a week. Look for employers to cut hours and hire more part time employees. Could you get by working part time?
So if your employer drops it's coverage under the new law you must be covered by health insurance! If you do not show proof of health insurance coverage on your 2015 tax return you will be taxed $2,000.
You can choose to go on the medicaid program and many will as the premiums will probably be lower. The quality of care will be lower and there will be a long waiting list as most doctors don't take medicaid patients and more and more are not accepting medicare patients either.
Look for insurance premiums to sky-rocket as costs go up to pay for Obamacare. There are new taxes on drugs, medical devices, and even taxes on things that have nothing to do with healthcare. Following is a list of your new taxes:
Obamacare law contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses
The President's healthcare law is one of the largest tax increases in American history.
Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses.
Arranged by their respective effective dates, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, where to find them in the bill, and how much your taxes are scheduled to go up as of today:
Taxes that took effect in 2010:
1. Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals (Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,961-1,971
2. Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113
3. "Black liquor" tax hike (Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 105
4. Tax on Innovator Drug Companies ($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,971-1,980
5. Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike ($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,004
6. Tax on Indoor Tanning Services ($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,397-2,399
Taxes that took effect in 2011:
7. Medicine Cabinet Tax ($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957-1,959
8. HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike ($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,959
Tax that took effect in 2012:
9. Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Min$/Jan 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957
Taxes that take effect in 2013:
10. Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): Creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income: Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93
Capital Gains
Dividends
Other*
*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.
11. Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax ($86.8 bil/Jan 2013):
Bill: PPACA, Reconciliation Act; Page: 2000-2003; 87-93
12. Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers ($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exempts items retailing for
13. Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI ($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994-1,995
14. Flexible Spending Account Cap -- aka "Special Needs Kids Tax" ($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Indexed to inflation after 2013. There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,388-2,389
15. Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D ($4.5 bil/Jan 2013) Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994
16. $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives ($0.6 bil/Jan 2013). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,995-2,000
Taxes that take effect in 2014:
17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax.
Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS).Bill: PPACA; Page: 317-337
18. Employer Mandate Tax (Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer).Bill: PPACA; Page: 345-346
Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years
19. Tax on Health Insurers ($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. Phases in gradually until 2018. Fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,986-1,993
Taxes that take effect in 2018:
20. Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans ($32 bil/Jan 201: Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on "Cadillac" health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). Higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family) for early retirees and high-risk professions. CPI +1 percentage point indexed
So Congratulations America! You now have a lot of new taxes to pay, long waiting periods for medical procedures and sub-standard care in your future! Oh and don't count on keeping your doctor either, 67% of doctors don't like this law and threaten to quit!
What he has done will cost Americans 5 Trillion bucks!
What Obamacare has in store for you
Now that the Supreme Court has upheld Obamacare under the tax clause (and he swore that this bill was not a tax remember???) This is the bottome line:
Employers who employ 50 or more full time employees must provide health insurance benefits that comply with the law or pay a $2,000 tax per employee. Let's face facts shall we? If the cost of paying the tax is less than providing benefits the employer will gladly pay the tax and drop your benefits. Notice also that the law stipulates full time employees. A full time employee is an employee that works less than 30 hours a week. Look for employers to cut hours and hire more part time employees. Could you get by working part time?
So if your employer drops it's coverage under the new law you must be covered by health insurance! If you do not show proof of health insurance coverage on your 2015 tax return you will be taxed $2,000.
You can choose to go on the medicaid program and many will as the premiums will probably be lower. The quality of care will be lower and there will be a long waiting list as most doctors don't take medicaid patients and more and more are not accepting medicare patients either.
Look for insurance premiums to sky-rocket as costs go up to pay for Obamacare. There are new taxes on drugs, medical devices, and even taxes on things that have nothing to do with healthcare. Following is a list of your new taxes:
Obamacare law contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses
The President's healthcare law is one of the largest tax increases in American history.
Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses.
Arranged by their respective effective dates, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, where to find them in the bill, and how much your taxes are scheduled to go up as of today:
Taxes that took effect in 2010:
1. Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals (Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,961-1,971
2. Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113
3. "Black liquor" tax hike (Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 105
4. Tax on Innovator Drug Companies ($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,971-1,980
5. Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike ($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,004
6. Tax on Indoor Tanning Services ($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,397-2,399
Taxes that took effect in 2011:
7. Medicine Cabinet Tax ($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957-1,959
8. HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike ($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,959
Tax that took effect in 2012:
9. Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Min$/Jan 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957
Taxes that take effect in 2013:
10. Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): Creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income: Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93
Capital Gains
Dividends
Other*
*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.
11. Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax ($86.8 bil/Jan 2013):
Bill: PPACA, Reconciliation Act; Page: 2000-2003; 87-93
12. Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers ($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exempts items retailing for
13. Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI ($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994-1,995
14. Flexible Spending Account Cap -- aka "Special Needs Kids Tax" ($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Indexed to inflation after 2013. There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,388-2,389
15. Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D ($4.5 bil/Jan 2013) Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994
16. $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives ($0.6 bil/Jan 2013). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,995-2,000
Taxes that take effect in 2014:
17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax.
Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS).Bill: PPACA; Page: 317-337
18. Employer Mandate Tax (Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer).Bill: PPACA; Page: 345-346
Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years
19. Tax on Health Insurers ($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. Phases in gradually until 2018. Fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,986-1,993
Taxes that take effect in 2018:
20. Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans ($32 bil/Jan 201: Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on "Cadillac" health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). Higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family) for early retirees and high-risk professions. CPI +1 percentage point indexed
So Congratulations America! You now have a lot of new taxes to pay, long waiting periods for medical procedures and sub-standard care in your future! Oh and don't count on keeping your doctor either, 67% of doctors don't like this law and threaten to quit!
- Thread Starter
- #23
November people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hispls
5,000+ posts
CarAudio.com Veteran
I happen to hold a Bachelor's degree from a University and have taken quite a few graduate classes and tech classes as well. I would hardly call that uneducated. You, sir, are the most worthless piece of troll **** on the internet and I would normally not dignify your vomit with a response, but I will back up my claim for the sake of anyone who is interested in facts whose sole existance serves more than to just steal oxygen that my dog could be breathing.
"I wish to single out one person, and that one person is sitting next to me. Her name is Liz Fowler. Liz Fowler is my chief health counsel. Liz Fowler has put my health care team together. Liz Fowler worked for me many years ago, left for the private sector, and then came back when she realized she could be there at the creation of health care reform because she wanted that to be, in a certain sense, her profession lifetime goal. She put together the White Paper last November–2008–the 87-page document which became the basis, the foundation, the blueprint from which almost all health care measures in all bills on both sides of the aisle came. She is an amazing person. She is a lawyer; she is a Ph.D. She is just so decent. She is always smiling, she is always working, always available to help any Senator, any staff. I thank Liz from the bottom of my heart. In many ways, she typifies, she represents all of the people who have worked so hard to make this bill such a great accomplishment."
(at the time Mrs. Fowler was VP of one of the largest insurance companies in the business)
Baucus Thanks Wellpoint VP Liz Fowler for Writing Health Care Bill | FDL Action
Use your head for something else besides ******* *****, buddy.
xShoWTeKx
10+ year member
Drop Bass Not Bombs
government logic: lets make it a law to buy a house, that will solve the homeless problem. 0_o
xShoWTeKx
10+ year member
Drop Bass Not Bombs
I'm saying that's basically all this health care bill is doing is using that same logic of making people have health insurance. it's going to fail hard and i don't want to be around when it does.
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