//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif Not very smart...
Brock
5,000+ posts
SEXYTIME!! NIIICE!
...
The battle lines are too deep in the Middle East to really expect any type of short term solution or truce. As far as I see it the only solution is a duel state where the Muslims and the Jews can live somewhat together; however, groups like Hamas and the true Zionists really make that impossible now. Neither group is willing to negotiate or even acknowledge the other's right to exist which makes any type of compromise impossible. Unless the children of today and their future children are taught to move away from the hardline positions that contribute to the consistent cycle of Palestinian attacks and Israeli counterstrikes, nothing will change.
Brock
5,000+ posts
SEXYTIME!! NIIICE!
i think we should just stop sending israelis tanks
Why? the Israelis have been sincere. They've already been drawn into a major war three times within their 60 or so year existence. Then everytime Israel wins, they give all the land back and everyone still *****es at them.
I'd love to see you tell me the Arab nations would do the same if the tables were turned.
Pretty ignorant. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/furious.gif.fc81ca146dbff91fede3ed290dbc4f4c.gif
I see two possibilities. One hamas starts another wave of violence, brings Israeli retribution and loss of aid from the rest of the world. This will make life even harder for the average Palestinian and hamas will lose control.
Two, hamas continues its anti Israeli rhetoric but in reality softens its actions over time. Now they also have to worry about running a nation and providing services for their citizens. Granted they have implemented social services programs in Palestine but this has to be on a much larger scale and prove reliable over time. Winning really took away hamas's biggest weapon, its clandestine unaccountable nature.
OP
Slammed
5,000+ posts
Striking Accord
- Thread Starter
- #22
How would you feel if you are living and the USA and they decide to give half the country to the mexicans? Would you be ok with that?
If FDR wouldve lived after WW2...there wouldnt have been a state of Israel where it is now....and the there wouldnt be such a thing as a middle eastern conflict. After speakeing to Ibn Saud, FDR realized that there would be obvious conflict between Jews and Arabs. Truman was kept in the dark with all of these affairs...he also had very good Zionist friends that persuaded him.
Theodore Herzl, a father of Zionism, even believed that a Jewish State didnt have to be in Palestine (he even pursued the idea of Uganda).
Zionist come with this notion that the land belongs to the Jews...where the bibles states it belongs to the descendants of Abraham....Jews werent the only descendants.
I believe the US should not interfere with these foreign affairs (I believe Jefferson and Woodrow Wilson once said this). One of these days we are really going to piss the Middle East off.
In some ways you are right, but lets be realistic... People obtain land through wars. The Jews once had it, it was taken away by war... when the Palestinians had it, they took it by war... it was taken away by the Palestinians through war, etc.
You can argue forever that it wasn't just for Israel to be put in Palestine, but its a circular argument. You can say the same about how the Palestinians obtained the land, and then say the same about how Britain took over. It doesn't get anywhere.
Also consider that if the United States stayed out of Middle Eastern affairs AS IT STANDS and even in the past, Israel would have a MUCH greater advantage than they already do. It usually comes down to the U.S. telling Israel to back off and be nice.
Don't mean to start a flame war, just giving my opinion as you are. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
OP
Slammed
5,000+ posts
Striking Accord
- Thread Starter
- #24
no prob man...I hear you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
theres always going to be this conflict in the Mid East.......unfortunately the U.S. the got involved with this one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif
theres always going to be this conflict in the Mid East.......unfortunately the U.S. the got involved with this one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif
Tis true.
Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but to face your previous argument on another front, how would YOU feel if the Native Americans started ******* bombing your home? We took an entire continent from them, would you be willing to give your land back?
The main goal of the Zionists was a Jewish state, they happened to get a slice of land about the size of New Jersey. Lets assume the land they received wasn't in Palestine but in Iraq... do you believe the reaction would be any different?
Its not as if the Islamic people don't have plenty of other places that they can freely settle. They certainly aren't in need of an "Islamic state."
The argument basically comes down to, what is more important: A Jewish state or Palestinians possessing the land they BELIEVE belongs to them?
The way I see it, war determined what IS. The Palestinians can work towards coexistence with Israel and have a land of their own, OR they can bicker for the rest of time over which people god chose to inhabit the land. The second option doesn't seem too promising for them in my opinion.
Wow so much ignorance and half truths in this thread.
OP
Slammed
5,000+ posts
Striking Accord
- Thread Starter
- #27
please explain
share with us your views
I hate the word ignorance BTW.....
I have taken classes in Zionism, U.S./Israel relations, as well as Jewish History. Also taken Islam. Read many books on the subject. Professors were professional and were not biasde on the subject, I reached my own conclusions.
Everyone has an opinion.....and there is always going to be disagreements. I know Im going against the majority with my views, I know I may be flamed. But I am prepared to defend my views.
DBfan187
5,000+ posts
Supa's mom was here!
he's Canadian. You know where he stands.
OP
Slammed
5,000+ posts
Striking Accord
- Thread Starter
- #29
I do not agree with their methods, never have. Both sides have not been handling this conflict well, especially the the so-called 'freedom fighters".
Of course I would feel threatened and worried about my life. And no, I wouldnt want to give my land back.
What I am in conflict with is that the Jews shouldnt have been there in the first place.
Your analogy is unsuccessful with proving your point though. The Jews were placed in Palestine by a world power. The indians were basically wiped out by fronteirmen.......especially Andrew Jackson (grrrr...thats a whole new story).
...but I do see where your going with it.
I believe that there would be conflict in Iraq, but not as bad as we have it in Palestine. Palestine is more holy to them than Iraq is. But, yes there would be conflict.
I do realize that after the holocaust a decision had to be made with all of the displaced people.
We must see it with their eyes. They believe the land belongs to them....and they believe that they have the right to expel anyone who doesnt belong there. I wish that they would co-exist, but its never going to happen.
Question for you...what do you think would happen if all the Arab countries united? King Feisal was close with acheiving this goal.....Arab tribe disagreements and Imperialism ruined his dream.
Its not going to happen.....I wish it would
Im not agreeing with the ******* bombers or the terrorists. I believe what they do is extreme and uncalled for. They have been consumed by the "righteousness" of their jihad. Its sad, the way they interpret the Qu'ran. Its such a beautiful religion.
I do sympathize with the Jews. And I do realize Truman was pressured to act upon the many displaced people after the Holocaust. If he wouldve known what FDR knew, I think things wouldve been different. Creating a Jewish State in Palestine was a huge mistake.
JimJ
5,000+ posts
Tangled Up in Blue
Err...not quite.
There's been conflict there ever since the Crusades, and it won't be going away any time soon. The creation of the state of Israel probably made things worse, but even if it was put back to the way it was before WWI, there would still be turmoil there. The Iranians still hate the Iraqis, and the Turks can't stand the Armenians, and the Armenians try to kick the Azerbajanis off their turf, and so on and so forth.
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