Government Shutdown

[Proximity 10+ year member]

Be it wage decreases, new guys with cheaper pay rates, etc. So yeah i may be hiring, but its only to replace the veteran guys that have worked for me for so long that their pay is hirer then someone that can do the same job, but starts out as entry level pay.

ALL companies only worry about their bottom line and if someone tells you different, they are lieing or going to fail miserably at business.

So you agree that the things from your first quote happen if when there are no tax increases? Even if there were NO taxes those things would still happen.

 

[csu87 10+ year member]

yeah happens all the time, but a higher tax is going to contribute to it more then if the tax was the same

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

yeah happens all the time, but a higher tax is going to contribute to it more then if the tax was the same

I simply disagree. Maybe it has some effect, but it's marginal at best. Plus it's not like we're talking about doubling taxes. At a 5-10% tax increase I would guarantee that it would have no effect on hiring. It's just more propaganda and lies that have worked their way into the minds of Americans over the past 50 years.

I mean, during the Great Depression, the top tax rate was in the 80s, yet look how fast the GDP rose during the 30s:

And unemployment was going down:

Cleary taxes do not hinder growth or job creation.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Ive been saying for a long time now that politicians play the 'hate the other side because they are satan' card to keep us all ignorant to the fact that they both play that game, to hide the fact that both sides are equally corrupt and inept. The whole idea of 'hey sure, we suck, but at least we dont want deathpanels to kill your grandma, so vote for us'. How many times do you hear friends/family/acquaintances explain that they voted for a certain politician, or party, because they are the "lesser of two evils"? Both parties, and virtually every career politician in DC, feed off that attitude.

Exhibit A: Proximity.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

So what is the great and powergul audioholic doing to change the world? Because you know everything, what am I supposed to do, having the viewpoints I do, to not be so "partisan"? I'm truly interested.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

So what is the great and powergul audioholic doing to change the world? Because you know everything, what am I supposed to do, having the viewpoints I do, to not be so "partisan"? I'm truly interested.

So that's what you think you're doing with your preaching here? Changing the world?

lul

 

[E-Rock 10+ year member]

Plz do continue with this debate, which is what I think makes this country great. However, I will not abandon my libertarian values, so I will side with audioholic on this one.

 

[ace_800 5,000+ posts]

Medicaid and Medicare are the biggest spending the Government does and biggest waste of money. So lets add another in the Obumacare. All of its a waste, get rid of it and pay your in med insurance.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

If people realized that our way of life was supported in every way by the government, they wouldn't say stupid things like "government is a bunch of bullshit" and worry about how we are being governed.

If you and your "people" really believe this, our country is doomed.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

The reason we HAD a good way of life is because hard working Americans made America the way it was. People fought, voted and lobbied for a better standard of living. Lots of money was poured into this country from Europe and other countries also. More importantly, people used to stand up for their rights and freedoms. They formed unions and parties (good and bad). They shaped their future by using their strong beliefs.

There's a reason a 3rd world country has no organization.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif If we don't wake up soon, we will have no organization.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Medicaid and Medicare are the biggest spending the Government does and biggest waste of money. So lets add another in the Obumacare. All of its a waste, get rid of it and pay your in med insurance.

Exactly! The amount of drug addicted (prescription) Americans is rediculous. A lot of people act like they have some type of illness or pain, both physical and mental these days. Pfizer and all these drug companies are just raking it in from insurance, Medicare, etc.

Don't even get me started on the abuses of the welfare system......There's another multi-trillion dollar abuse.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Proximity, you apparently have no understanding of how taxes affect small business.

I've got news for you, its going to be a lot more than a 5-10% tax increase. Large corporations can absorb a 5-10% tax increase, especially since they pay 0 to -5% (5% credit) in taxes anyway!

A small business has to very carefully decide how to spend their income (net profits). How to expand business.

I can't afford to hire another worker at $70-200+ a day, if taxes are going up. Right now, its all I can do to keep one other employee (other than my wife) employed even part time. I have people apply for jobs I can't offer on a near daily basis. As much as I'd like to hire more people, I just can't afford to in this economy.

That bogus chart you posted on employment is laughable at best. The unemployment percentage goes down as time goes on Regardless. People either fall off of unemployment benefits (soup lines in the depression/30's) or they don't claim unemployment or they found a job (not likely). Oregon was recently bragging about having less than 10% unemployment. You know why that happened? Almost everyone's employment insurance ran out, for some people even years ago!

Not understanding the reality of the situation is no excuse for you to try to fight people in public forums that deal with it on a daily basis. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Statistics are only as accurate as the numbers that are fed into the graph or chart. If people aren't claiming unemployment, of course the numbers are going to be lower...

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

So that's what you think you're doing with your preaching here? Changing the world?
lul

It's funny how desperate you are to avoid ANY debate with me whatsoever. I obviously have got your tail between your legs. Like I've been saying, you know I'm right and you're too much of a pussy to admit it, so you fall back on this "Prox is just a partisan sheep" to appear smart and superior. Of course all these brown nosers are going to side with the great audioholic, but anyone with a shread of rationality can see what you are doing.

Now, keep wasting your time here and say that you don't want to waste your time.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

I can't afford to hire another worker at $70-200+ a day, if taxes are going up.

Oh. My. God.

Do you know what tax deductible means?

For all intents and purposes, taxes are on profits only. Let's pretend taxes are 90%. Let's say I have $10,000 profit after expenditures (which include payroll) every year. So after taxes I put $1,000 in the bank and I pay $9,000 in taxes. But the next year I need an extra employee at $4,000 a year. You think I can't afford it, but that money comes out of the profit. So that next year my profit is $6,000k, and I only pay 90% on that $6,000. Taxes do not prohibit hiring. Period.

That bogus chart you posted on employment is laughable at best.

Okay. Typical "graph proves me wrong so IT must be wrong" response. You're reasoning is crap because the unemployment increase (which happened because FDR tried to balance the budget) coincides with GDP growth rate changes.

But either way, what about the GDP graph?

 

[Cabin_Pressure 10+ year member]

Anybody here agree with the "flat tax"?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

It's funny how desperate you are to avoid ANY debate with me whatsoever. I obviously have got your tail between your legs.

Obviously.