Ed or Adire

[Steven Kephart 10+ year member]

Originally posted by ElementalG20 The brahma vs the 12a.22. I am FAR from being the most educated in terms of woofer design, and technology, but there are a few facts I tend to hang onto. The XBL2 motor is a benefit, I wont take that away, the idea, and technology is a break through, in more ways than I know, but probably not in to many ways i can personally hear. I've heard both the brahma and the 12a.22's. Both are excellent woofers, but the build quality of the 12a.22 IMO exceeds that of the brahma, woven leads, and over all better fit and finish, and according to eD, the variance between woofers is kept to a very tight tolerance that there previous builder wasnt able to reach(to my knowledge eD's former buildhouse is the current buildhouse for the brahma) if they cant do it for eD, kind of wonder if they can do it for adire(QC/variance issues).

The woven tinsel leads is actually a bad thing. It causes wear spots on the spider that reduces the subs life.

Originally posted by ElementalG20 Just curious, how good does a low distortion woofer sound, that STILL has lead slap issues? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif Yup, its an easy fix, but shouldnt be needed to be fixed on a woofer that is already more expensive than the eD woofer. As far as the comparison to the EVO-R, yes they drivers are very similiar, however the new flat cone, among other changes have allowed the 12a.22 to do things the evo-r was not capable of.

The Brahma's don't have a tinsel lead slap problem anymore. My B10 sit's only a couple feet away from my head under my dash inverse mounted. If anyone would be able to hear lead slap, it would be me with my setup.

So, what performance differences does the ED A have over the EVO-R? In fact the EVO-R used a progressive spider rather than dual linear spiders. This means their Kms curve is better than the A.

Originally posted by ElementalG20 Also, why would that spacer used to allow a 2nd platform for spider mounting suddenly reduce rearward travel? The spiders still have ample travel, and in the 12a's case lock down doesnt occur until the cone is nearly touching the top tiere spider, 15a is however motor limited do the the greater distance between the cone/spider mounting posititon.

I explained this in my other post. The cone hits the spider platform on this type of basket design in 31mm. Their tier puts it up 9mm. 31-9 is 22mm. I got this information directly from Dan Wiggins, who was playing with a 12A. He said it physically can't move backward more than 22mm.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

***Calling Loyd/Nick/Josh to the thread***

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[Steven Kephart 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Jmac This is going to get ugly ...

I hope not. I enjoy a good debate, but don't like it when they are imature about it. I always try to keep it civil.

 

[ElementalG20 10+ year member]

I dont see any need for it to get ugly, I'll readily admit Im not the most educated on these two, nor any two drivers for that matter. There are facts I'm not aware of, and ones I'd be curious to here about from others, however the things I do know to be not true, and the things that appear to be amiss, I like to bring up simple as that, kind of the point of the boards. If a 'flame war' errupts, nobody learns anything, and enemies are made.....................pointless.

To my understanding, its the actual venezuala basket that prevents rearward travel, and its the spider that will collide with the basket, not the cone colliding with the spider, thus the tier not becoming an issue until around 24-26mm, which the e12a.22 did spec out at I believe 25.4mm as per dumax measurements, I seen at least part of the test results on the woofer, long ago, that spec I do remember it surpassed the 21mm mark.

Woven leads, in theory, I can see them creating 'wear' on the spider, perhaps they wont last 50yrs, but I'd be willing to bet they will last longer than most people even consider keeping there woofers. I know of some fairly old woofers still running strong that use woven leads, they arent terribly old, but a few years on them without issue. Besides, there is a 3yr warranty to stand behind them. As far as tinsel slap.......always been a problem, and witnessing a recone, I know have a good idea of how/why it occurs, IMO it will always be an issue with the high excursion woofers, its too easy to make a mistake in 'guaging' the wire length. But as I said before, a problem that is easily fixed. Hopefully someone with some more info on the other issues that I honestly cant give any view points on will address them.

 

[Steven Kephart 10+ year member]

Originally posted by ElementalG20 I dont see any need for it to get ugly, I'll readily admit Im not the most educated on these two, nor any two drivers for that matter. There are facts I'm not aware of, and ones I'd be curious to here about from others, however the things I do know to be not true, and the things that appear to be amiss, I like to bring up simple as that, kind of the point of the boards. If a 'flame war' errupts, nobody learns anything, and enemies are made.....................pointless.

I totally agree. And becides, just because we don't agree on something, doesn't mean I don't respect you. And becides, I could be wrong. It's happened before. And I always try to admit it if I am.

Originally posted by ElementalG20 To my understanding, its the actual venezuala basket that prevents rearward travel, and its the spider that will collide with the basket, not the cone colliding with the spider, thus the tier not becoming an issue until around 24-26mm, which the e12a.22 did spec out at I believe 25.4mm as per dumax measurements, I seen at least part of the test results on the woofer, long ago, that spec I do remember it surpassed the 21mm mark.

I know that the DUMAX report did go past that point. The DUMAX report was for a prototype. They could have had +9mm forward throw, and just done a curve fit. But that wouldn't be usable excursion. At least that's the only thing Dan could come up with.

Originally posted by ElementalG20 Woven leads, in theory, I can see them creating 'wear' on the spider, perhaps they wont last 50yrs, but I'd be willing to bet they will last longer than most people even consider keeping there woofers. I know of some fairly old woofers still running strong that use woven leads, they arent terribly old, but a few years on them without issue. Besides, there is a 3yr warranty to stand behind them. As far as tinsel slap.......always been a problem, and witnessing a recone, I know have a good idea of how/why it occurs, IMO it will always be an issue with the high excursion woofers, its too easy to make a mistake in 'guaging' the wire length. But as I said before, a problem that is easily fixed. Hopefully someone with some more info on the other issues that I honestly cant give any view points on will address them.

Yeah. I just was stating what Dan told me. He said he will never use woven leads in the spider because of this. But then he does mainly home audio where they do keep their drivers for a long time. In fact, I finally broke my dads AR2A's when I was in high school, which he bought just after he got out of high school. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif