dome midrange or full size cone?

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

clearly limited because of your own assertations.you dont know me .. you dont know half of me .. you have no right to tell me what my constitutional rights are .. and you tread the line of infringing my personal liberty, but you do it quite distasteful.

whatever equipment you have to have bloated your ego needs to be stolen so you can start all over again where the rest of us upcoming enthusiasts are.

i've had it with your rude and obnoxious remarks.

you havent posted anything constructive to the topic.. you have simply criticized and been a skeptic.

why not flash a badge or some sort of certification so we can work on getting that revoked.

WTF??? I merely told you that you were misinformed. If you think that is infringing your "rights" perhaps you need to learn what your actual rights are. Regardless that still doesn't make what you're saying correct. It has nothing to do with you. It isn't all about you regardless of your inflated sense of self worth, which I would argue is somewhat misplaced.

You keep stating your opinion, that is completely contrary to the results of numerous studies and countless experiments by actual audio engineers who know much more than I do and exponentially more than you, and trying to pass it off as fact. The only fact is that regardless of what you think to be the case, you have NO facts to back it up. If you have never heard a 2-way component set that is perfectly capable of playing down to 50Hz or so and still smooth through the midrange at moderate volume, then you really have no basis for you argument. There are TONS of such components on the market. I told you exactly what is needed, a tweeter that can play low enough that you can keep the mid out of cone breakup. With a good mid, 2.5kHz is plenty low for the tweet. Look at the winning SQ cars on the circuit. VERY few of them run a 3-way front stage and those that do try to cross the mid as low as possible on the low side and as high as possible on the high side. The overall objective is still the same, get one driver to play as much of the frequency spectrum as possible.

And ramos's response curve is WAY flatter than yours. You're almost 10dB down above 4kHz.

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

this is what i am looking at in my apartment:

My graph is my 2 WAY setup in my car. That capture was just 5 1/4's and tweeters playing. Minus a 3db drop at 31.5hz ( it's a 5 1/4" after all lol) it's ruler flat. There is nothing wrong with a two way setup if you have a clue about what your doing and do a little bit of research before you buy. To just flat out say a 3 way system is better is retarded. Specifically with some of the crossover points you have suggested. Splitting vocal range and imaging cues between two different sources is the last thing you want to do if your aiming for a decent sounding and imaging stage. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

i really want some bass up front.. i have had systems in the past with 2-way components up front and back, with the subwoofer picking up all that the components couldnt.
but this time around i really wanna try going with 3-way crossovers in the front and back (or at least the front)

my front doors can fit 6.5 inch speakers.. and i dont know how deep i can go, but i know the tang band 6.5 inch subwoofer isnt gonna fit the depth requirements.

so i was thinking about getting some 6.5 inch MDF rings and stacking them on top of eachother (or custom order some 2-3 inches thick)

that will give me enough clearance in the door so the back of the speaker doesnt hit the window as it goes up and down.

i'm not going to bother building a box for the doors.

i just wanna use the door as it is for a box.. and that means i cant run a regular midrange in the same air space as the woofer.

should i get a 5.25 inch sealed midrange and cut a hole in the door wherever there is enough room ... or should i get some small dome midranges that will fit virtually anywhere on the door.

i've read that dome midranges have excellent off-axis response.. but i am worried that they wont fill the interior with acoustic output.

my foot area is already sorta cramped.. therefore i dont wanna build some kick panels and reduce foot room even further.

this limits my selection of midranges tremendously.

i was gonna go with some audiophile midranges.. but that company doesnt make sealed back midranges.

i have to really choose whether i want audiophile sound quality from the speakers .. or do i want to try and positively fulfill the entire frequency spectrum without any serious gaps between octaves.

and i think i am gonna fill the frequency spectrum instead.. then calibrate the EQ with my calibrated microphone.

woofers:

Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

midranges:

Pyle Pro PDMR5 5-1/4" Sealed Back Midrange | Parts-Express.com

tweeters:

i dunno yet.. probably something vifa

the woofers have a frequency response of 38-800 Hz

the midranges have a frequency response of 450-7,000 Hz

crossover points 600 hz / 3700 hz (cerwin vega crossovers on ebay)

i'm thinking that if i crossover the midranges at 3700 hz .. there will be enough 'extra' in the voice coil to make the speakers sound better than stock .. but probably not as good as the audiophile midranges i was gonna get (peerless HDS/nomex series)

having the ability to go as high as 7,000 hz .. reserving the speaker should allow the voice coil to produce everything else with a little bit more detail since there is less strain on the speaker overall.

i dont know how well the midrange works .. i have never worked with them before.

i'm also hoping that the tang band woofer will do alright since i am cutting it off at 600hz instead of going all the way up to 800 hz

there are some subwoofers in my 3-way setup of my house.. they say that the woofer can go well up into the midrange (+1,000 hz) and i really enjoy the results.

so i am gonna try it again.

besides, the frequency response generally goes much lower than midrange speakers.

with the 13mm of xmax that those tang bands put out.. that should be plenty to get the bass output i want from them.

i plan on giving them a high pass crossover with the radio.. 50hz with a 6dB slope (i'll try 12dB slope to see which one is better)

does anybody know if a dome midrange will sound dull and lifeless .. giving much less than what a 5.25 inch woofer would ??

i really wanna fill my cabin with sound and i have some doubts that a dome midrange will fill the cabin.

i dont have an amp yet either.. but it will probably be 100 watts @ 4 ohms

i'm looking for something with low THD +noise

something like 0.09 or lower.

my house receiver has 0.09% in stereo mode and 0.7% in surround sound mode.

i can really tell the difference in the noise floor.. even with computer fans and a box fan going.

it sounds like there is a blanket laying on top of the entire output.. which is the lack of noise floor.

i'm only gonna spend like $150 - $200 on the amp.. so if i have to hunt down a used one i will.

my subwoofer is a jl audio 12w7 in a sealed box custom fabricated to meet required specs as suggested by the manufacturer.

the box also has an internal spider-brace to break up the standing soundwaves.

i need an amp for the subwoofer too.

and i'm only willing to spend as much as $250 on that amp .. and only if the specs are really really good.

i'll sit around and hunt down a used one if i have to.

my deck is a pioneer deh-7800mp with 5v pre-outs .. 16 band equalizer .. custom programmable time alignment .. built-in high pass and low-pass crossovers .. and burr brown DACs

i really want to know about the differences between dome midranges and cone midranges (how they sound inside the car).

Lets start over from the beginning with your crossover points.

Check out this chart

Let's start with vocals, and your 600hz crossover point between the midbass and midrange. Look up at the top , at the female and male vocal ranges.

See where does 600hz fall in this range? Your crossover point might stand a chance of working if you can somehow manage to mount the mid and midbass right next to each other. It can be done, but is kind of hard to do in a car. So lets say you have door mounted midbass and kick or dash mounted mids. We now have physical distance between two drivers playing the majority of the male vocal range. with a 600hz crossover point, you would literally have one driver playing one half of the spectrum and another playing the other. So one voice is now coming from two different locations seperated by a couple feet. It can be tuned, but your going to need an arse ton of proccessing to accomplish a decent stage. When choosing crossover points, there is more to it than just what the manufaturer says is the frequency response of the drivers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif