thevic24
5,000+ posts
my silence is deadly...
Lucky for me, I have access to a nice Oscope at work..//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
thevic24
The ONLY reason why the DD-1 sells is because of it's advertising technique.
Word of mouth is still to this day the best advertising method and those who are not educated will purchase it because they understand what an LED means when it comes on and goes off but do not understand how to read...
JL Audio is an example of this tradition too.
Their W7 line has been selling for a decade now, probably longer and people still hoard them like it's the best thing out there for ungodly amounts of money.
Why?
Advertising...
Let's break down a DD-1.
You are paying MORE money for a DD-1 than you can for an oscope that does what? 1000x more things...
So, basically you are paying $150 for an LED light..
Pointless..
But wait.. let's look over the device.
So you set your gains with whatever reference amplitude tone you want to.
IT DOESNT MATTER!
Are you going to be playing music?
IF the answer is yes, then the DD-1 is POINTLESS.
I'm sure it doesn't say that in the manual.
The reason is because music is dynamic and recorded at different levels of amplitude.
So, let's say you set your amp using a 0db tone.
Well, you'll NEVER get full potential out of your amp on music because music doesn't sustain it's amplitude at that level so you wasted $150.
Let's say you set your amp using a -3db tone.
Well, some music may peak or sustain over -3db depending on how it's recorded and then Bam! You are clipping.
Using an o-scope is POINTLESS too.
If you want to set your gains, you have ears, nose, eyes.
These three things are all you need to do so.
the CC-1, POINTLESS. Used to set crossover points.
You know how to do it for $12?
Get a DMM and probe the AC out.
When the values start to decrease, your filter is sloping through the threshold setting.
I hope I have educated some people on here reading this because I and many others i can assure you hate when people are taken advantage of in the car audio hobby. It's pretty much extorting money from people because they do not take the time to learn what they are purchasing or why they think they need it.
This was not intended but since we are talking about audio accessories, if someone is going to spend money on something of USE, I'd consider SPL-Lab's SMART Monitor. Yes, I am SPL-Lab USA, but I will not blab on about the product to try and turn this thread over to a sale. I do not want to waste people's time with that.
What it does is an active protection device for car audio. First one ever for this hobby. There are "monitors" out there but none that take action against faults in your install..
no more low batteries
no more alt overcharging
no more xtreme clipping scenarios
no more burnt coils
Measuring, monitoring and most importantly, Protecting in realtime both AC and DC V and A, it's a preventative tool that keeps your equipment safe when unforseen things can\will happen.
We R&D'd it for over a year and is about to be imported into the USA soon.
Once we get them in, we will show the USA what this hobby has been needing. Peace of mind...
Ok, i'm done ranting..
Word of mouth is still to this day the best advertising method and those who are not educated will purchase it because they understand what an LED means when it comes on and goes off but do not understand how to read...
JL Audio is an example of this tradition too.
Their W7 line has been selling for a decade now, probably longer and people still hoard them like it's the best thing out there for ungodly amounts of money.
Why?
Advertising...
Let's break down a DD-1.
You are paying MORE money for a DD-1 than you can for an oscope that does what? 1000x more things...
So, basically you are paying $150 for an LED light..
Pointless..
But wait.. let's look over the device.
So you set your gains with whatever reference amplitude tone you want to.
IT DOESNT MATTER!
Are you going to be playing music?
IF the answer is yes, then the DD-1 is POINTLESS.
I'm sure it doesn't say that in the manual.
The reason is because music is dynamic and recorded at different levels of amplitude.
So, let's say you set your amp using a 0db tone.
Well, you'll NEVER get full potential out of your amp on music because music doesn't sustain it's amplitude at that level so you wasted $150.
Let's say you set your amp using a -3db tone.
Well, some music may peak or sustain over -3db depending on how it's recorded and then Bam! You are clipping.
Using an o-scope is POINTLESS too.
If you want to set your gains, you have ears, nose, eyes.
These three things are all you need to do so.
the CC-1, POINTLESS. Used to set crossover points.
You know how to do it for $12?
Get a DMM and probe the AC out.
When the values start to decrease, your filter is sloping through the threshold setting.
I hope I have educated some people on here reading this because I and many others i can assure you hate when people are taken advantage of in the car audio hobby. It's pretty much extorting money from people because they do not take the time to learn what they are purchasing or why they think they need it.
This was not intended but since we are talking about audio accessories, if someone is going to spend money on something of USE, I'd consider SPL-Lab's SMART Monitor. Yes, I am SPL-Lab USA, but I will not blab on about the product to try and turn this thread over to a sale. I do not want to waste people's time with that.
What it does is an active protection device for car audio. First one ever for this hobby. There are "monitors" out there but none that take action against faults in your install..
no more low batteries
no more alt overcharging
no more xtreme clipping scenarios
no more burnt coils
Measuring, monitoring and most importantly, Protecting in realtime both AC and DC V and A, it's a preventative tool that keeps your equipment safe when unforseen things can\will happen.
We R&D'd it for over a year and is about to be imported into the USA soon.
Once we get them in, we will show the USA what this hobby has been needing. Peace of mind...
Ok, i'm done ranting..
In respect to keeping threads on topic, i will post the link to where the info is. From there, you can talk about it in the thread being linked-
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/miscellaneous-car-audio-classifieds/557990-group-buy-spl-lab-meters-smart-monitor-2.html
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/miscellaneous-car-audio-classifieds/557990-group-buy-spl-lab-meters-smart-monitor-2.html
CAT MAN
5,000+ posts
Banned
this dd-1 has killed 1 amp 2 times for me
rc10mike
10+ year member
I b sippin on sizzurp
Just get an amp rated at 10x the power of your sub...then you can set the gain low and never have to "worry" about clipping it.
LOL then he might as well stock up on 10x more of the same subs too haha. Hey quick question thats related to the OP's post - Do you have to have the amp connected to the subs when setting the gain with a dmm or not. I always thought that without the subs connected, that measuring the amp output would give a false high reading since there is no real load on the amp...
trumpet
5,000+ posts
Barry Schanz
The DD-1 appeals to people who don't want to know every detail about how things work. They want something simple and trustworthy, and SMD has built trust with a lot of people. So what if it's a simplified process that could be done with a "real" tool, the oscilloscope? Who's going to hold hands with those brave people who pick up an oscilloscope and then get that deer-in-the-headlights look when it's too complicated? This can be debated endlessly or we can realize that there are places in the market for different solutions. The customer is going to buy what they want, period.
I have seen both sides to this story and it's always the same.
You cannot compare the DD-1 as easier to use than an o-scope.
Why?
Because you do NOT use an o-scope to set gains either!
The same reason why you do not use a DD-1, o-scope or DMM.
Music is DYNAMIC. Until people understand what that means, then they can keep wasting money.
I DO AGREE with what you say when you say people will buy what they want.
They buy these things because they do not know better.
Then something fails.. Then what? Then they have to learn why.... then these tools are pointless for the use they are being used for.
Many of us do not like companies to prey on the uneducated and make money off of that disadvantage.
I'd rather educate those to better the hobby.
IF people do not want to learn, then they need to pay someone else to do it for them that does know.
Otherwise, they'll always have damaged equipment. It would be an inevitable consequence of un-education.
You cannot compare the DD-1 as easier to use than an o-scope.
Why?
Because you do NOT use an o-scope to set gains either!
The same reason why you do not use a DD-1, o-scope or DMM.
Music is DYNAMIC. Until people understand what that means, then they can keep wasting money.
I DO AGREE with what you say when you say people will buy what they want.
They buy these things because they do not know better.
Then something fails.. Then what? Then they have to learn why.... then these tools are pointless for the use they are being used for.
Many of us do not like companies to prey on the uneducated and make money off of that disadvantage.
I'd rather educate those to better the hobby.
IF people do not want to learn, then they need to pay someone else to do it for them that does know.
Otherwise, they'll always have damaged equipment. It would be an inevitable consequence of un-education.
maylar
10+ year member
Electrical Weenie
You absolutely can set gains with an oscilloscope, if you know what you're looking at and know what your goals are. You don't have to use a sine wave test tone - you can use real music and watch the peaks.
It's difficult for most people to detect distortion by ear. Instruments like the DMM, scope or DD1 get you in the ballpark, hopefully without clipping and hurting anything. Yes, assumptions are made and yes, you can probably squeeze more out of your amps under dynamic conditions. So what?
I'm not saying that your ears can be ignored in favor of some meter's reading. At the end of the day it's what the system sounds like that matters. But using measuring devices can help an installer set up a system safely and give you some peace of mind.
trumpet
5,000+ posts
Barry Schanz
I'm with you on that.
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